Forgotten Word Ministries Blog

jpd78 · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

question for mr wise

frozenchoseninak · Active Member

read what the Apostle John had to say about Believers:

THIS WILL BE FROM THE AMPLIFIED BIBLE

1 JOHN 4:

⁴Little children, you are of God [you belong to Him] and have [already] defeated and overcome them [the agents of the antichrist], because He Who lives in you is greater (mightier) than he who is in the world.

⁵They proceed from the world and are of the world; therefore it is out of the world [its ^[d]whole economy morally considered] that they speak, and the world listens (pays attention) to them.

⁶We are [children] of God. Whoever is learning to know God [progressively to perceive, recognize, and understand God by observation and experience, and to ^[e]get an ever-clearer knowledge of Him] listens to us; and he who is not of God does not listen or pay attention to us. By this we know (recognize) the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.

¹⁷In this [union and communion with Him] love is brought to completion and attains perfection with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him], because as He is, so are we in this world.

¹⁸There is no fear in love [dread does not exist], but full-grown (complete, perfect) love ^[g]turns fear out of doors and expels every trace of terror! For fear ^[h]brings with it the thought of punishment, and [so] he who is afraid has not reached the full maturity of love [is not yet grown into love's complete perfection].

INTO CHAPTER 5: (AMPLIFIED)

1 John 5

¹EVERYONE WHO believes (adheres to, trusts, and relies on the fact) that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah) is a born-again child of God; and everyone who loves the Father also loves the one born of Him (His offspring).

²By this we come to know (recognize and understand) that we love the children of God: when we love God and obey His commands (orders, charges)--[when we keep His ordinances and are mindful of His precepts and His teaching].

³For the [true] love of God is this: that we do His commands [keep His ordinances and are mindful of His precepts and teaching]. And these orders of His are not irksome (burdensome, oppressive, or grievous).

⁴For whatever is born of God is victorious over the world; and this is the victory that conquers the world, even our faith.

⁵Who is it that is victorious over [that conquers] the world but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on that fact]?

¹⁰He who believes in the Son of God [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] has the testimony [possesses this divine attestation] within himself. He who does not believe God [in this way] has made Him out to be and represented Him as a liar, because he has not believed (put his faith in, adhered to, and relied on) the evidence (the testimony) that God has borne regarding His Son.

¹¹And this is that testimony (that evidence): God gave us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

¹²He who possesses the Son has that life; he who does not possess the Son of God does not have that life.

¹³I write this to you who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) the name of the Son of God [in ^[c]the peculiar services and blessings conferred by Him on men], so that you may know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that you [already] have life, ^[d]yes, eternal life.

¹⁴And this is the confidence (the assurance, the privilege of boldness) which we have in Him: [we are sure] that if we ask anything (make any request) according to His will (in agreement with His own plan), He listens to and hears us.

¹⁵And if (since) we [positively] know that He listens to us in whatever we ask, we also know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that we have [granted us as our present possessions] the requests made of Him.

2 CORINTHIANS STATES THAT WE HAVE BEEN MADE A NEW CREATURE (creation) IN JESUS.

IF BEFORE SOMEONE ACCEPTS JESUS, THEY ARE A "SINNER", AND AFTER THE PERSON ACCEPTS JESUS, WORDWORKER STILL REFERS TO THEM AS A "SINNER", WHAT BENEFIT IS THERE TO ACCEPTING JESUS AS LORD AND SAVIOR?

1 JOHN SAYS THAT WE ARE NOW CHILDREN OF GOD, DOES THAT MEAN A PERSON ISN
'T A SINNER (one who lives in sin, and to sin, who has never accepted JESUS), ANYMORE?

sally · Newbie

jdp, I like what you said about sin and want are never satisfied. Now I wish I had brought my old sunday school lesson with me smile

We did one on proverbs and parables and that was one of them. Sin, greediness, is like an open gullet. Ravening and ugly. The more you feed it, the more it craves. Leads to the pit.

sally · Newbie

thanks for responding. I don't have internet at home so didn't get back very fast. I'll read these responses again. I did leave the faith movement but have a friend in it. I kept thinking what they say doesn't line up with bible. I study my bible but am still pretty new to it. So I don't respond to friend quick or "easily" enough - at this point. It just really bothers me that they tell her this prosperity/authority thing. I read in gospel that you don't be all proud of yourself. when you get done doing whatever it was HE said do, you say all I did was be a good servant and do what HE expected/told me do. This keeps you humble and remembering that you couldn't do a thing unless HE (God/Jesus/Spirit of God) enabled you to do it. John 1st chapter says it all... In the beginning... all things made by HIM (Jesus) that were made and nothing made apart from Him. Whatever gifts or talents I have and actually put to use, I have because He chose to gift me this way to use for Him. And I read that the ONLY power and authority I have is from Him to preach the good news, lay hands on the sick, tread on scorpions and serpents and cast out devils. I didn't see where Jesus said I have power/authority to run my life, decide my fate or circumstance (beyond accept Jesus and heaven awaits), get rich, decide or get anything beyond decision to listen and obey or to ignore. The rest is fully in His hands for whatever purpose He has in mind.
wow. thank you. it helps. I truly want my friend to see the error of these teachers and study bible herself. learn what bible actually does say. IN CONTEXT.
oh yes, it is "God won't do it for you, He gave you - thru Jesus - the keys to do for yourself." this why you have to take your authority. that statement troubled me so deeply. that statement removes God's sovereignty (to my mind). so if it's true, where does this leave God? as a puppet? I feel ill hearing this. So I asked my friend, then what is my need for God after salvation? If I have the authority and full control of my life now, then no need for God is left. That answer only invokes irritation or hostility.

-- Edited by sally on Thursday 8th of October 2009 02:14:06 PM

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Jason ...
It will take the same thing it takes for each and every human being in the world ... a recognition that he is a sinner, a recognition that the teachings he has embraced are false, an admission of that sin and that falseness to God the Father, a remorse for what he has done and believed, repentance and a true determination to leave the sin and falsehoods behind and then the faith to know that Jesus has forgiven him and now lives in him to work His will in Frozen's life.
Unfortunately, while I'm not saying it can never happen (God does miracles), it probably will take a tragedy that cannot be "confessed away" before he realizes how false his belief-system is. I've known several people who came to the truth of God's sovereignty (and their total inability to control circumstances) through the death of a loved one, a severe life-changing illness, or other such powerful change in their circumstances.
We can only pray for him that he comes to truth before it's too late.

jpd78 · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Mr. Wise, what will it take for frozenshosen to step into the truth?

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Dear Sally,
I'm not Mr. Wise either, but Bob and I are good friends and I can state his position in few words.
His position is this: If you are continually being told that YOU can "speak with authority" and that God won't "do for you" then you are surrounded with false teachers. It's true that Jesus has given us authority ... but we need to use that authority more for Spiritual Warfare occassions than for "Prosperity" issues.
You need to find a church that teaches the truth ... be careful to listen closely for the words and phrases: "Prosperity"; "speak into existence",;"call things that are not as though they are" (and the opposite, "call things that are as though they are not";) "word of faith"; "speaking negativity"; & "positive confession". If these phrases are coming from the pulpit, chances are you are attending a "Word of Faith" church where the use of speech to "create reality" is central to the message. These "word of faith" churches are nothing more than thinly veiled witchcraft ... because one of the basic tenets of witchcraft is the use of words to change reality. Many of these churches call themselves "Charismatic" rather than "Pentecostal" and if you're looking for sound Pentecostal type teaching, stick with Assembly of God or Church of God out of Cleveland, Tennessee. For others, good churches include The Salvation Army, many Baptist, Bible, Free Methodist, Nazarene, Missionary, and SOME Methodist churches ... although I do NOT agree with all the doctrines of all these churches, the core teachings of most of them are sound.
God bless you in your stand against the gods (and message) of this world. I will be praying for you that you can find a Bible-teaching church.

jpd78 · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

(continued) They see money in most verses, they say alot of parables talk about money. yeah duh, what can sinners understand and want? what can people understand? what's the root of all evil? So we being evil, before we were saved what can we understand? If jesus used grizzly bears for example for the jews, would't they have said what's a grizzly bear? So for these false teachers here is the heart of jesus teachings. Some things might happen to you in this world for know rhyme or reason. Don't worry believe in me, take no thought of material things, do not take much stock in this world, eternal life cannot be measured, this world is short. I mean these liars are ridiulous, Tell them to keep reading, As a child can see jesus focus, heaven and getting some there. How do we get there? please the father. Who I am sure says earthly, material things will be eaten by moths. translation, short time and means nothing. They will point to abraham, not seeing abraham was never poor, sure he blessed him with the essentials, what they leave out, abraham took care of alot of people at least 318 men not counting women and children. Then they will point out blessings in exodus. Bless your basket and store, again, everday essentials. Wake up prosperity teachers, we as a whole in america, have to much already, watch these prosperity teachers closely, they rarely ever talk about missions, feeding the poor. Its always build more and bigger and more strategicly. neglecting the people they do have and no church discipline and the words you never here tough love, so maybe some will not die in their sins. The blind need to wake up. Do most americans have essentials? yes. You never here peace of mind and satisfaction. Why? we who are truly saved know that sin and want is never satisfied, so they don't even know these words!!!

jpd78 · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Sally, I am not mr. wise, but these words should help clear a little bit. This stuff comes from the word of faither's, who are filled with pride, misinterpret and forget the day they were saved. they will surely quote John8:34-36 and psalm 82:6, "ye are gods" here in lies the falseness of these teachers, they continue to take verses out of context, they stop with story to make there point, never considering the beginning or the end of the particular story or verses. See we being mortals, god always puts us in our place where he says in psalms 82:7 ye will die like men. so should not this be translated, True believers are little gods in fact, because god has adopted us as sons and daughters of himself, but don't become proud of this fact because you didn't earn it, as we cannot even come to god without the holy spirit. So knowing this which fool should be the first to brag? obviously no one. They have forgotten who to give the credit to. There selfish ambition, pride, are so easy to see and it looks like you are seeing it. but need to be reaffirmed and assured. Don't all of us true believers need that with false teachers everywhere you turn. We as believers do have authority, but as you can see everywhere alse in this world, authority for the most part is abused. And sure at first many will say Id love to this and that if I had power and authority, but what happens next? after awhile they become proud, which leads to misjudgement and sin and no justice or mercy. Just remember anyone who teaches gods word will not tell you that you are being decieved and jesus says there are many, so how do they do this? By not rightly dividing the word and using a verse for there own advantage (out of context). As how valuable is matthew 4 so much to see in that chapter alone. first learning jesus would not bow down to the god of this world for his own advantage and glory and seeing just how satan decieves. By making the word sound good for so we don't think were doing anything wrong as satan himself : It is written: then as these false prosperity teachers go. Satan himself also All these things will I give thee. If thou will worship me. If money being the root of all evil, who is behind it, we know, satan. So don't these liars also promise give $20 and you''ll get $40. What happened to not knowing what your hands are doing. Since they do not do what jesus says. They are not christians!!!!!!!!

-- Edited by jpd78 on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 12:45:30 PM

sally · Newbie

i am new new to this website as well as the "blogging" thing...
I keep being told I have authority and I am the one in control of my life by my words, need to use my authority, God gave me the authority so He won't do it for me (whatever I need or want), I have to do it for myself. I am in control. It doesn't sit well with me. I believe God is in control, remains in control. And I don't believe I can or should tell God anything I think He is supposed to do for, with, to me. Yes, pray, ask, believe, study, word is true... I just do not believe I am God or have full control of what goes on in my life. I truly believe God does allow things to come to life for reason of His own. Be it we understand why allowed or not allowed. It isn't always fun or happy. Yet, God allows. I can do lots of things right (according to His word), still get trouble. It is in the bible. We'll have tribulation, be of good cheer, He has overcome the world (Jesus)...

My question is this: if I am the one fully in control of my life, by words, faith, sending forth the word (bible, speak word in quote), what I desire (even though does line up with bible), what need do I have of God, His Son Jesus, Holy Spirit to lead and teach and guide me? What need? Seems only need began and ended on getting saved, Jesus Saviour of Sally. From there on out, Sally is god? I make a mess of life before Jesus? I meet Jesus so now can go on my own somehow? Just study word and tell it what to do? This sits totally wrong with me. And how is God supreme and in control of all He created and unmatched if now I can be like Him? Be in that control of all pertaining to me? Plus, what an accident waiting to happen! ?God is now simply my advisor? What is need for God if I am now some little god?

This is the question I ask a friend of mine. I do see my true and real need for God, Jesus, Holy Spirit in my life and Him remain sovereign and I am not my own "sovereign". I am subject to His wisdom and plan. Looking for answer to know better response/rebuttal.

-- Edited by sally on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 08:57:17 AM