I keep seeing this teaching and rationilization that one thing is more important than the other cause the bible mentions it more, more foolishnes as james put this to rest when you "break one law, you break the whole law, why? the law of love. the law of faith? Also, I have seen many tactics for trying to win people to christ, the 10 commandments being the most popular. I also know this, that most people have never considered there beliefs on a deep level, showing them that any belief besides christ amounts to nothing and is works based, no matter the religion except atheists. but examine an atheist for a minute and ask them if you dont believe in god or jesus christ and they dont exist. Why use there names in vain then? no answer of course. Don't the evil spirits say they believe?
You're right. I personally feel that Christians will have to endure much of the Tribulation before the Second Coming. (But I'm willing to disagree with those who believe differently because God deliberately veiled these truths until they should be revealed). Here's why I believe what I believe: 1. I Cor. 15:51 & 52 "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed --in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET ..." In Revelation the last trumpet is mentioned in Chapter 10, Verse 7: "But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the MYSTERY of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets." And it is blown in Rev. 11:15 "The seventh angel sounded his trumpet and there were loud voices in heaven which said, 'THE KINGDOM OF THE WORLD HAS BECOME THE KINGDOM OF OUR LORD AND OF HIS CHRIST AND HE WILL REIGN FOREVER AND EVER.' " 2. Matthew 24 The first half of the chapter describes the signs of the end of the age. Those signs, in order, are: The temple destroyed (V:2); Deceivers will arise (Vv: 4 - 6); International wars (V:7) [side note on this one: Until WWI wars were almost always fought internally ... between factions within one nation ... now they are almost always international in scope], Famines and Earthquakes [natural disasters will increase] (V:7); Persecution of the saints, a great falling away, many false prophets will appear to deceive many (Vv: 9 - 11); The gospel will be preached in the whole world and then the end will come (V. 13). It then goes on to say "WHEN YOU SEE STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE 'THE ABOMINATION THAT CAUSES DESOLATION,' SPOKEN OF THROUGH THE PROPHET DANIEL ... LET THOSE WHO ARE IN JUDEA FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS. LET NO ONE ON THE ROOF OF HIS HOUSE GO DOWN TO TAKE ANYTHING OUT OF THE HOUSE. LET NO ONE WHO IS IN THE FIELD GO BACK TO GET HIS CLOAK ..." Then it talks about the speed of Christ's coming and completes the lesson by saying, "Learn this lesson from the fig tree (a symbol of Israel). As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so when you see these things, you know that it iear, right at the door. I tell you the truth, THIS GENERATION WILL CERTAINLY NOT PASS AWAY UNTIL ALL THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED ..." (Vv: 52 - 54). This order seems pretty clear ... but I have one more Scripture that causes me to stop and wonder ... and that is: 3. Daniel 12:11 & 12: "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days." Why is there a 45-day difference between how many days there will be from the abomination and the number of days the "blessed one" has to wait???
Personally, I believe that 45-day period comes at the end of the Great Tribulation and is the period during which the Wrath of God is poured out to counter the Wrath of the Antichrist which has been being visited upon the saints and the sealed 144,000 Jews.
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
I know some will disagree, because pre-trib sounds so good, many people say they have studied with no pre-concieved notion, that would be impossible if they grew up in the church. I did not, I spent 14 months of 8-12 hrs. studying this subject. in jail not knowing anything when I first found myself in there. with that said, the biggest question that will answer the "rapture" who is the elect? I see many pastors say the elect are the saved. This is impossible if you are a pre-trib as the elect are gathered after the son of man comes. MATH 24:30-31. So simply the elect are, were chosen by jesus, who is the covenant chosen from the foundation of the world. Why do many teachers focus on the old covenant? If the elect is israel, then shouldn't we adhere to there covenant now? So simply put, here is the elect.... Those who are going to heaven with jesus for eternity, Are all jews going? or all believers? obviously all believers. The problem with most on either side, alot say the other side isn't saved. WRONG. But it will be hard for a pre-trib to stay on the path. Most will blame god and the person who taught them this. And if im still here this will be hard to swallow. Which will be hard for non-pre-tribbers who have shaky faith. most pre-trib point to noah, the last time the world was destroyed and say god kept him from tribulation. RIGHT, I bet noah thought the flood was tribulation free. Didn't god keep noah right on earth, ok maybe water. point being he wasn't "raptured" so that point they use means nothing. The rapture is eerily the same as the human condition. feeling good, thats it for now.
-- Edited by jpd78 on Thursday 24th of September 2009 07:26:27 PM
Our forgiveness, of course, does not come from ourselves. If it did that would make us God and (thank GOD!) we are NOT God. I think a lot of times this forgiving ourselves nonsense flows straight from the Freudian and Jungian psychologists ... just as "loving yourself" does. Jesus (of course) got it right when he said, "love your neighbor as yourself". In a sideways sort of way he was saying EVERYone loves themself ... we don't need to learn how to do that ... if we didn't, we wouldn't jump out of the way of onrushing cars or do anything we need to do to survive. What we DO need to do is to seek God's forgiveness, know that He promises to forgive our sins if we confess them to Him and turn from them and accept the forgiveness He gives us at that moment. The tricky part is REALIZING that, after that, anytime we begin to remember our past and fret about how bad we were ... it ISN'T GOD WHO IS BRINGING THIS UP. These things have been thrown into the Sea of Forgetfulness and God cannot remember them anymore. It is the "ACCUSER" (another name for Satan) that brings it up because he loves to make us miserable. THANK HIM FOR REMINDING YOU OF HOW BAD YOU WERE BECAUSE JESUS LOVES YOU SO MUCH HE HAS FORGIVEN ALL OF IT AND YOU NOW STAND RIGHTEOUS BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD. Then begin praising God and watch that foul being flee! He hates being a tool of God!
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
I have heard lately a lot of people teaching we have to learn how to forgive ourselves, this teaching is false, since the bible declares, god is giver of all things for the believer, what is this your trying to do yourself? and saying yes god you give all things except for the fact,I have to forgive myself, this is madness, another slippery teaching that is oh so tricky, to those without knowledge of true and saving faith, If I have to forgive myself I'll never be saved, because it would be impossible to know how to do this, how can I forgive myself of my own sins? Obviously you can't, so if you have caught your self thinking this forgiving myself stop! quit saying to god I exalt myself above you and I can forgive myself because your work is incomplete.
