Forgotten Word Ministries Blog

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

RE: Pentecostals Only?

Rudijah23 · Active Member

I agree with sojourner;the church today is being built on man and methods.Today's church only preach what the people want to hear,that is where we get all these mega churches not being built on the spirit of god only on man's marketing geniuses and his clever methods. we are in a state of apostasy,this doesn't mean a great falling away of church members,but rather the church falling away from doctrine,it's cultural seepage,cultural accomodations like a coffee shop,a movie theater,bikers for jesus,we are saved not to go back to the culture we got delivered out of to look just like them,but to be different the moment you talk about jesus people are not going to think you are cool,we are misfits,but we can still witness and get these people saved,we will never fit in,most of these churches say their all about the great commission,but they don't outreach and get people saved one at a time,most of their people are from other churches,they will even talk whole churches to join them and they will appoint them in charge of a ministry-the pastor and higher ups,you can't tell the difference in the music-from the culture to worship,they don't have standards for ministry like no fornicaters,drunkards,body piercings,etc..,sorry I can go on for days.

Rudijah23 · Active Member

this is a reply to zeek827;in matthew 28;19-you read how to baptize in the name of the father,and of the son,and of the holy ghost.I looked it up in 4 different translations their all the same.In 2 cor 13;14-may the grace of the lord jesus christ,and the love of god,and the communion of the holy ghost,be with you all.In matthew 3;16-17 jesus being baptized heavens opened,spirit of god descending like a dove,and lo a voice from heaven this is my beloved son,three separate people mentioned,three things happening at the same time,in john 14 whole chapter is about things we have been talking about,john 14;16-? acts 15;29-plural talking about holy ghost,acts 10;38,rom 15;13,luke 4;14,we have the same power those of us filled with the holy spirit,acts 5;3-4,

Rudijah23 · Active Member

Jesus said in the book of john,in regards to andrew asking to see the father and that's all they need.jesus answered him saying all this time i have been with you,the deeds i did,for now on you have seen him,i am in the father,and the father in me.

jpd78 · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

question to those who call themselves pentecostals, why do you call yourselves this? Are you not christian and if you say you are why do you proudly say pentecostal before christian? I see that my beliefs are true but I people would call me leaning towards protestant, I will never be a protestant and will never call myself this, I am a christian, nothing else, Did jesus protestiantian save you? If you don't see trinity in the scripture, quit bible thumping, what does tri mean? does it mean three? so its a fact tri means three, do you see whats working in the bible? god, jesus, holy spirit, can you put 2 and 2 together or not? I f something as simple as this can trip you up, truly what else has?

Rudijah23 · Active Member

In response to only jesus.Do you know what makes us pentecostals,it's the holy spirit of god,the book of acts talks about pentecost,which is the holy spirit,doesn't say god but the spirit of god,jesus said in the book of john 15;26,john 16;7-8he must leave so he can send the comforter,helper,the holy spirit,the holy spirit will convict the world of sin,rom 8;14,gal 4;6,unless a man be born again,he will never see the kingdom of god,except a man be born of waterand the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of god.I believe in the father,the son ,and the holy spirit.

zeek827 · Newbie

Very nice post there. I really find no real evidence myself of a trinity in scripture.You'll never see the word trinity anywhere in scripture. Thats why I believe we have a sect of Christianity out there that is way off base just by the simple act of Baptism. Yes Jesus did say what he said in Mat 28:19 but he was talking to his disciples and 11 days later on the day of pentecost how did Peter baptise??? In the name of Jesus Christ not titles.
Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead bodily. That Godhead was Father and Son. The Holy Spirit was simply another dispensation of that same Spirit of God that comes back on the church at pentecost. Not a third person of a Godhead. Confirmation is in scripture where two of the Gospels clain at the baptism of Jesus "The Holy Spirit" decended in the form of a dove and two say "The Spirit of God" decended so either they are the same thing or we have a bigger conflict here. When Jesus asked Peter "Who do you say I'am"??what was his reply..Thou are the Christ the SON of the living God.
Jesus later claimed that that rock of revealation that Peter recieved from the Father concerning who Jesus was is what the gates of hell will not prevail against. Upon this rock I'll will build my Church..Sorry Cathloics that rock was not peter,it was the revealation of the true Idenity of Jesus Christ. Paul says blessed be the GOD and FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ.There is but on mediator between God and men the MAN Jesus Christ. That Man that hung bled and died for me was who Peter said he was The Son of the Living God not God made flesh. The Bible plainly states who God is God is a spirit no man hath seen God at any time. God cannot be born and God cant die. Just read John 17 and if you cant tell by the many times Jesus said and ye believed that I came out from God and still believe Jesus was God you need to read it again. Jesus came to this earth to do two things First bear whitness to God His Father and then die for His own...Now the roles have switched Jesus is on the throne God has decended in the role as Holy Spirit bearing whitness to the Son in the church the continued body of Christ....

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Here Jerry Dean tells a story about my Pastor Jesse F. Williams

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Great is the mystery! I agree

Sometimes it sounds like One.
lots of places sounds like two.
and very few mentions it sounds like three.

I just say Jesus, it kinda just bundles it up all together.

Hey I am here to learn. Teach me.

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Chris
No one is suggesting you "go back" ... what I am suggesting ... no telling you outright ... that one of the major requirements to be a leader in the church is to have a teachable spirit ... and you seem to be lacking that very basic necessity.
I'm praying for you Chris ... I would never call a church a "cult" simply because it doesn't teach the trinity ... Paul made it clear that as long as you believe that Jesus is the Son of God and confess with your mouth that God has raised Him from the dead (Rom. 10:9) ... you've got the basics of salvation.
Frankly, personally, I've never been able to "wrap my head" around the idea of the trinity so that is one of those things I leave in Jesus' beautiful, nail-scarred hands. I'm not saying God isn't a trinity ... but I AM saying I cannot grasp it for myself. I'm also not saying that "Oneness" is "wrong" because I've known wonderful Christians within the Oneness movement.
I just say ... leave what you don't understand or find difficult to accept in the Hands of the One who died for us ... and carry on. Sooner or later, as God sees your need to understand, He will reveal to you what is Truth.
Accept that Jesus died for you ... accept that He called Himself the "Son of God" ... accept that Isaiah says, "Unto us a CHILD is born ... His name shall be called wonderful counselor ... the EVERLASTING FATHER ..." Sooooo That is why I can't state unequivocally whether God is a trinity or not ... The two seem to disagree but I just leave it to God. You do the same, Chris ... allow teachings to flow in as well as out ... because if you only flow outward after awhile you're going to be dry.
Admit the possibility that not everything you've learned is absolutely true (we all fail to grasp the truth to one degree or another) and study for yourself anything you learn that you wish to understand and/or accept as truth and start with the things you've learned all your life in your church.
THEN when you've developed a truly teachable attitude you will be ready to teach others.
My prayers are with you, friend. aww

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Wow, I dont see you calling out your buddy there calling me a cult, so I guess I'll have to stand on my own here. That is what I am trying to do here, discuss truth but all you guys do is murmur and complain about whats going on in the church world in stead of praying for it. As long as we are in this world there will always be theives and robbers in the church, hense Judas, the man walked with God almighty, saw miracles and still stole from the purse. I would never call you guys a cult, because I don't know it all, I wish I did but I don't, and I know God can use all churches in some way. I am accused of having an attitude, oh yes accuse me of having and attitude, and since your old and mature you can't have one?
let us reason, not accuse one another, I want to see an apostolic move of God, God has showed me in many dreams and visions that I will see it in my day, so I will not be detoured from the path he has put me on, I just know what I know, believe me I am taking a huge leap of faith in my life. then again Abraham made one too when he obeyed the voice of God, yet he was written among the faithful. God has showed me the potential we ALL, ALL! you and I, me and you, have in him. I am trying to be obedient in going on, not staying back in fear of the unknown.

When I was 17 years old God showed me 2 visions and spoke to me audibly about his desire for this end time revival, I am not say this to sound super spiritual, I just can not discount it as having had to much pizza the day before, and potentially miss the plan of God. For example, One night 2 1/2 months ago I started feeling down about how my life seemed to be ending up, so I decided to go to the prayer room, I started to repent, and then I started reminding God of all the dreams I had about being used of God and all the things I know I should be doing, well instead of have a pity party I started to worship him with everything in me, I pored out my soul with so many tears as the spirit it of God washed over me and refilled me with his holy spirit, well before I left the prayer room I read the bible and I came upon this verse and it leaped out at me and I knew, that I knew God was speaking to me through his word. this was the verse.

Hab 1:5 Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.

Did you catch that, he WILL WORK A WORK IN OUR DAYS, WHICH YE WILL NOT BELIEVE, THOUGH IT BE TOLD YOU!!!!!

Well that next week we had a traveling minister and he preached on that same verse, and ever since then, I am believeing God for the Impossible, I will not discount it as some coincidence, or should I?

So I will press towards the mark for the Prize! It is my destiny, I have found it in him and not of myself, I want to commit wholly to him. I will not go back

God bless

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Chris
Your attitude (as long as I am around I will have the last word) tells everything there is to know about you.
You are more interested in promoting yourself and whatever you approve of than of knowing, learning and dispersing Truth.

-- Edited by wordworker at 10:17, 2008-03-12

The Saint · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Chris- The United Penecostal Church is a bona fide cult. Word of Faith preachers (most of them at least) have not gone as far as denying the Trinity, so at least some can still be considered Christian.

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

thats all I have to say woodman

You keep assosiating us pentecostals with the ones you see on TV. United Pentecostal Church preaches against TV. Get off yourself and stop judgeing everyone according to your Ignorance.

as long as Iam around I will always have the last word, haha.

-- Edited by Chris at 20:24, 2008-03-11

Woodman · Active Member

Alright, I enjoy reading ya'll's take on various things....Sounds like we may be well versed in selling and defending our various denominations...

The question is, which gospel are we defending and offering? Isn't that the heart of the question???

Maybe so many of the 'charismatic' or 'Pentecostal' ministries that are held accountable on this sight are being mentioned because they have strayed quite a long way from the message....

For Wordworker, love your passion....I think it is safe to say that we have moved into a 3rd or 4th generation of "blessings"...Saved, sanctified, healthy and rich....BTY, like Luther, my heart has been warmed every time the Holy Spirit has breathed freshly on my heart...

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

I never said I agreed with anything on that video.

By the way, what makes you think that i am talking about manifestation without the spirit of God, of course I am talking about with the Spirit of God, lol, why would I try otherwise? That wasn't our church, and i have never seen anything like that in our church except for a few people.

you said, "but it isn't UP TO US" what if it is? Faith is the substance of things hope for the evidence of things not seen. I DONT FEAR FALLING INTO DECEPTION, becasue I have a sure word of prophecy!
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
When the light and Glory of God has shined in your hearts, you can't be fooled by a fake!

I have this word in my heart!
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
That is my inheritance, HE IS ABLE! to keep me. Jesus did something radical, He walked on water. Peter saw and cried out "let me come to you Lord!" jesus said, "Come" He received an INVIATION to walk into the supernatural. That story wasn't put in the bible for sensational reasons, it was there for an example, for a reason. He is calling you to step out and all you have to do is keep your eyes on him.

Here is Lees testimony.
http://www.brownfloyd.com/gallery/displayimage-topn-10223-1.html
Here is Lees testimony.

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Chris ~~ I never said we weren't supposed to demonstrate power ... but it isn't UP TO US TO DEMONSTRATE THE POWER ON OUR OWN.
God has to GIVE US the power for us to demonstrate it.
But you are simply too far sold on manifestations and don't seem to care whether there is anything of God behind those manifestations.
You say what I described sounded "out of order" but ... the difference is ... when the various manifestations of the Spirit of God come one after the other, in an orderly manner rather than having 25 things going on at once, there is an order you cannot deny.
And what I saw on those videos was CLEARLY not in order!

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Demonstration of the Spirit and of POWER!!

should we just throw this out?

-- Edited by Chris at 21:44, 2008-02-18

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

I believe you took that out of context woodworker, nice try If Iam not mistaken wasn't God wanting to reason with a backsliden Isreal, I am not a backslider, lol

Get thee behind me................. Im just kidding,

I want to speak face to face with God.

There are many pentecostal denominations, we are not those other guys!
Let me name a few of our prophets in our church, and I bet you have never heard of them.
Lee Stoneking
T. W. Barnes
John Arcovio
Jason Sciscoe
Jonathan suber
Billy Cole and countless others
These are the men outside of Jesus Christ who have made an impact on my life. They all have been MIGHTLY USED BY GOD

-- Edited by Chris at 20:53, 2008-02-18

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

WOW ive never seen any of our services like that? Im not going to say anything against it though, looks out of order to me, but who am I.

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Of course you will "NOT BE REASONED WITH ANYMORE."
Odd but God Himself spoke through one of His prophets and said, "COME LET US REASON TOGETHER!"

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

The United Pentecostal Church international do not have any assosiation with hagan and kopeland, thank God, thos guys scared me when I was a kid. Our organization for years would not Preach on TV, until recently they voted to allow it, but i haven't seen any on there yet.

I will not be reasoned with anymore.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
I dont know about you, but that just excites me beyond reasoning, to know that inheritance is more than I can comprehend! David, A man after Gods own heart worshiped, and they spoke against him, whats new, I know you guys(bobw and friends) arn't speaking agianst
NOW THATS BEYOND SENSATIONAL! this isn't surface stuff. lol

1Ki 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

I think I read somewhere else where he (God) answered by fire!
NOW THATS BEYOND SENSATIONAL!!

Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and HEALING ALL manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
I also think I read somewhere else where Jesus said Greater works than these shall you do because I go unto my father. We are an extension of his grace on this earth! Give him you feet, give him your hands, and your heart.
NOW THATS BEYOND SENSATIONAL!!

Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
NOW THATS BEYOND SENSATIONAL!!

If you say so, then yes I am looking for a sensational move of God,( I dont think its sensational) I want one that changes live. My friend, you come to late, I have had countless hundreds of sensational moves of God in my spirit!! Even today!!

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
THATS BEYOND SENSATIONAL!!

I dream about these things, I can't stop thinking about them. You wouldn't believe the dreams God have given me. i know that my destiny is sure in him.

May the love of God breakforth in your hearts with new desire!! Its time to lets Jesus out of the box.

I get attacked by the devil for being this way( Iam not say thats you guys, you are sons of God) but I get attacked often in my spirit, and sometimes I feel abondoned by God and I sink into this severe depression, but joy always come in the morning, and when it does I eat it up. If you guys ever met me you wouldn't believe that I post the way I do. Person to person, I don't care to talk about too much(unless its about him), but typing I get this strange inspiration, lol and i can't stop. well I have homework to do. lol didn't i say i wasn't coming back? what am I doing

-- Edited by Chris at 20:30, 2008-02-18

-- Edited by Chris at 20:36, 2008-02-18

-- Edited by Chris at 20:39, 2008-02-18

bobw · administrator

Chris,
Sorry to disagree with you, but there is much hunger here as in other places. I know I continue to hunger for the Lord and His Majesty. To no longer hunger means that one has had enough of something and that is far from the truth here.
It sounds to me like you are hungry for the sensational. God is not just the sensational but sometimes the quite still small voice. I understand your feelinigs about the video you showed, but coming from an Assembly of God background, I can tell you that the signs and wonders program promoted by most Pentecostals has overridden the actuality of the Lord Himself. To see what I mean check this video out and then tell me if you truly believe God is behind it or not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kESE8wjEXCQ&mode=related&search= If the link does not work go to www.forgottenword.org and click on the video link called "Holy Ghost or Men gone Mad"

Please let us know your thoughts on the video

-- Edited by bobw at 15:40, 2008-02-17

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

you have got to be kidding.................................well time to move on its been nice chatting. there is no hunger here, just a bunch of people already filled with doubt.

Love you guys

The Saint · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Did anyone read the beginning of this thread? It's way, way off topic.

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

"Second Blessing" is an old term used to designate either Sanctification or the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, depending upon your doctrine. It's not something I (or anyone else here) made up ... it's been around for longer than either you or I have been (and in my case that's about 400 years. lol) biggrin

I am very glad that your life was changed by Stoneking's ministry but we need to keep in mind that God even used a talking donkey to get his message across to a hard-headed prophet. He will use any willing vessel.
As for Lee Stoneking's "resurrection," evileye

I'd like to urge you to a few cautionary details. Before you assume that what someone is telling you is true (even someone who seems to be moving in power) you need to investigate their claims. The Bereans were called "noble" for researching everything they were told.
Have you seen paramedic and medical reports reporting this "resurrection?" I'm not talking about something the ministry has "reproduced" I mean the REAL thing. Have you talked with the paramedics and/or other medical personnel involved? It seems to me that if the man was truly resurrected without effective medical intervention it would have been headlines around the country (just like the Chattanooga cop who had been in a coma for 7 years and suddenly woke up). It just doesn't make sense to me that this sort of event would be ignored by our ever-hungry press.
Don't misunderstand me ... God can and DOES restore life to people when it is HIS sovereign will (that is, NOT because someone CLAIMS restoration of life but simply because God wants to be glorified). However, there are many people "out there" who would simply LOVE to be known as the modern day Lazarus ... and they justify their claims by such things as "the ends justify the means" or by such convoluted thinking as, "well, I was dead spiritually and God resurrected my spirit, so why not say I was dead physically if it will bring glory to God?" bleh

Paul urged his churches to "test the spirits to see if they be from God." God isn't insulted when we use honest common sense to investigate claims ... in fact He is pleased. Not every "miracle worker" is of God ... Satan creates lying wonders to deceive "if it were possible" the very elect.
It's the fish that swallows the bait that ends up on the hook. Faith is a wonder to behold ... as long as it's faith in GOD not in every claimant to Christianity that comes along.
And WE do NOT "walk in dominion" WE do NOT "take back what the enemy has stolen" ... that is NOT our responsibility. The Bible clearly states that GOD will restore what the "canker worm" has eaten ... not US. What you are saying here is basic Word of Faith doctrine and that is a lie straight from Satan.
God bless you in your journey toward Truth.

-- Edited by wordworker at 10:33, 2008-02-17

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

2nd blessing..........lol......never heard of this phrase......I want the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th..........................100th..........200th.......i want it all!

That last post with that video of lee stoneking. hundreds probably thousands of people have been healed under his ministry. As a young boy, he impacted my life like no one!! Back in 2004, he felt dead of a heart attack, the parametics tried for 15 minutes to revive his life, and 15 minutes later by the Spirit of God was resurrected and is moving in another realm, Im telling you! its powerful! The spirit and anointing of God is on his life, like no other, and I desire to be used of God!! that all

Love you guys no matter our differences, God has more for everyone here and I am excited that he is going to begin to move in your lives, because it is the word that liveth forever!
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
That word you have instilled in your hearts, will soon break forth and bear new fruit and experience for you. God desires to liberated you and give you a deeper revelation of his spirit and love.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. (this is spiritual climbing)
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
There is something upon this church age, it is religions deception, a spirit that limits our experience with him, but it will soon SHIFT, and the Lord is going to breakforth like a volcano, destroying the work of the Devil. we are fighting against principalities and powers, and everything that exalts itself against the knowlege of God! That knowlege of a relationship and power with him. Im telling you God has been revealing these things to me. God will have a revival of holiness, a revival of fire, a revival of purity, and of a sound mind! I do not want to live beneath my spiritual means anymore. That spiritual rut is of the devil and I refuse to live in it!!

-- Edited by Chris at 01:51, 2008-02-17

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Woodman, you call me a newbie, I have studied and been taught the word of God for 25 years. you try to make it sould like just because iam not some EXPERIENCED poster on this website, are you serious. anyway
"Call upon the name of the Lord and you will be saved"
"Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead and you will be saved"....Nothing extra...

Thats step one........ok lets say I aggree with you, that you can be saved from confessing. Well what next? Sit back and ride the back seat to heaven?
There is more of God to experience that just that. I want to get involved with what God is about to do in this last day.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto PERFECTION;
Get over that confession stuff and come up a little higher your still stuck on defending that first and seemingly only(j/k) experience you've had with God
Holiness unto God is perfection.
I can pull bible all day showing that God has MORE for us, than just a one time confession I made a long time ago. Here, let me mess with your theology for a second. Moses had a close walk with God, probably one of the most powerful man in the Bible next to Jesus Christ.
Deu 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,Moses had influence and power with God, he walked with God.
In this day and age it is a conviction of mine that the vail has been torn, and now we have access to the Holy of Holies that means you and I can find that secret place, that friendship with God. We have the privialege and honor to SEEK THE FACE OF GOD like moses did, and to see what he saw. I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I WANT TO SEE THE GLORY OF GOD, nothing else matters!!!!
Psa 27:4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.(thats what Iam talking about!)
THIS IS AN APOSTOLIC CONVICTION
Psa 27:8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek. (I am determined to seek it!!)
you need to stop getting hung up on that petty stuff, ok you believe in God, and you confessed, but it is time to move on into his fullness, its time to walk in dominion, take over, and take back what the enemy has stolen, and the only way we are going to do this is CALL ON HIS NAME AND SEEK HIS FACE.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

WOW! if the word of God can be written in my heart, WRITE IT ALL LORD!!! here Iam use me!
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

How shall, say it again paul.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
I want to see him now!! I have this hope. come on man, you scare me, you say nothing else like, once you give your life to God, this life becomes a boring, long, and hard road to travel!
ON speaking in tounges. Praying in the spirit is the most powerful, Glorious, and Faith lifting experience in the world!! it is a spiritual weapon and gift! I did it tonight, and felt my spirit break through this spirit of doubt, this cloud of deception satan was trying to put upon my mind and spirit. Speaking in tounges is praying the mind of God, we are praying in the will of God. I felt as if my soul was saying, God I need you a much a my next breath, there is nothing like his presence!! I don't know how to say it better. I want every thing he has to offer in this life.

Love you brother!!!! There is more!! I dont have time to write a book on here

-- Edited by Chris at 01:14, 2008-02-17

-- Edited by Chris at 01:22, 2008-02-17

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Actually, Woodman, Martin Luther was the first "modern" Christian to speak of a "second blessing" type of experience ... but he said that on a certain day, during his prayer time, he "found my heart strangely warmed..." and went on to describe the experience in terms that coincide with the "second blessing" experience.
However, Paul and other apostles spoke of being sanctified or "sanctify(ing) yourselves"... so I think the idea of sanctification is a little older than two or three hundred years!
The only real question is ... EXACTLY how sanctification is "done". aww

I can't speak for others but I certainly do NOT look upon you as JV! In fact, I admire you since you strive to serve the Lord daily just as I did for many years. I don't mean that as a put-down. I simply KNOW that much of my spiritual power (power to live it, not POWER) comes from my baptism in the Holy Spirit ... the difference BB (before blessing) and AB (after blessing) is too much to be denied.
I never said I "love the Lord" more than you do. I never loved the Lord any less BB ... but I was more able to express it and to live it AB! I loved the Lord from my earliest childhood ... but was enabled to walk in His ways with a firmer step AB.
As for thinking of you as someone who hasn't "got it right" ... wrong again. I think you've "got it right" ... you just haven't completed your journey ANYMORE THAN I HAVE! We're all on a journey through this life ... we ALL (Christians) walk with the Lord at the pace HE sets for us ... again, brother Woodman ... welcome to the board. Your comments may very well stimulate many of us to clarify in our own hearts exactly what we believe and exactly HOW we look upon others with differing views of our like faith!

-- Edited by wordworker at 09:53, 2008-02-16

Woodman · Active Member

Wordworker,

Thanks for the greetings and your words regarding the "sactification" or "baptism of the Holy Spirit"...

The idea of a 2nd blessing or baptism has been around for a long, long time...I noticed you mentioned Wesley in one of your previous posts and he is credited, in many circles, as on the the first to teach of a 2nd blessing...Being saved and sactified....I guess something that was just flat missed for 1700 years or so...

The issue I have is that for those of you in the 2nd blessing camp, you would look at me as someone on the JV team or someone who has just not got it right yet...Or as someone who has not sought this 'spiritual' baptism...

Being baptized the in Holy Spirit does not make you love the Lord or desire His presence more than someone like me....You desire Him more when He moves your heart to treasure Him more than anything else on this earth through suffering, trials, temptation, sacrifice, victories etc...

Again, thanks for your words...You read as if you are well schooled on this issue...

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Welcome,Woodman!
On the contrary, while I believe in what you term a "second blessing" I have NEVER believed that you NEED the second blessing to be saved.
Neither has any church I have ever attended.
What I and other pentecostal people I know believe is that the so-called "second blessing" is another name for sanctification. Some of us believe this is a second work of grace that comes when the believer yields to God and the "old man" or carnal nature "dies" (See Romans 6). Others believe that sanctification is something that we do every day by setting ourselves apart from the world and living lives as yielded as possible (Paul said, "I die daily").
Speaking in tongues is sometimes related to the sanctification experience, sometimes it is considered a separate thing. No one I know personally believes that speaking in tongues is anything other than a sign of being "baptised" in the Holy Spirit. Now ... you believe that you received the infilling at your salvation ... so do I ... but that is like taking a drink of everlasting water. The word 'baptizo' means to immerse ... you wouldn't argue with that if you were speaking about water ... but now we're speaking of the Holy Spirit. When you were baptised in water were you not immersed? Of course you were ... so being baptised in the Holy Spirit is the same thing ... it's the difference between taking a glass of water and drinking it and jumping into a swimming pool and getting wet all over, buoyed by the water and lifted into new realms.
Jesus didn't IMMERSE his disciples in the Spirit ... He BREATHED on them and told them "receive the Spirit" ... it wasn't until later that they behaved differently, preached in the market square, behaved boldly ... after they had been IMMERSED into the Spirit Who buoyed them up and lifted them into new realms.
For years I did not believe in pentecostalism ... and I battled every day to hang onto my salvation. It was almost as if the writer of "Come Thou Fount" knew my heart when he wrote, "Prone to wander, Lord I feel it. Prone to leave the God I love! Take my heart, Lord, take and seal it. Seal it for Thy courts above!"
Once I accepted the Baptism, I found that the very thought of leaving my Father, my Savior, my Lord almost an impossible thing.
Serving Him is simply made easier by being immersed in His Spirit instead of just drinking Him in!

-- Edited by wordworker at 15:40, 2008-02-15

Woodman · Active Member

Again as a newbie to this forum and after reviewing all of the recent comments on this topic and others, I can see that I am not on my home turf here..It appears that I have made it in amongst my 2nd blessing brethern...But, I am game...

Greetings!

In reading the comments on this particular post, it does not take long to see that there is a vast distance between where I am and where some of you are...Needless to say, I am always intrigued to hear how doctrine should not be viewed as terribly important to our lives and beliefs and then I read the comments in some of these posts...No wonder it should not be a priority...

To my apostolic brothers, the Trinity is not foundational to Christian belief? Pardon! I have heard it many times before but just because the Bible does not use the word "trinity" but rather Father, Son and Holy Spirit, it does not count or is in error....Hmm, I guess you guys and the Muslims, Hindus, Jews and others can all agree on that...

You see, one minor distortion in your theology and other distortions will follow...For instance, my apostolic brother would say that after my conversion, I need to be baptized "into the name of Jesus" and if I was not baptized as such, I am not redeemed...Further, if the baptism semantics are not enough, I must then receive a 2nd blessing, a seperate impartation of the Holy Spirit and if I have not received this impartation or "baptism of the Holy Spirit", again I have issues with my salvation...Further, after the 2nd blessing, I must then begin to show "evidences" of my redemption and blessing by utilizing and showing forth one or more of the spiritual gifts...Of course, the main ones being, "speaking in tongues" or "performing" for God(Jesus) like in the videos Chris posted, but then again, if I am not showing evidences of these gifts, I still have a problem...Where does it end? Are we not adding to the requirements for salvation here? I know I do not understand because I have not received the 2nd blessing but,

Lets keep it simple:
"Call upon the name of the Lord and you will be saved"
"Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead and you will be saved"....Nothing extra...

I am sure that it must get frustrating debating all the "extras" that the church can add to redemption, on both ends of the spectrum, but it must be done...

Also to Chris, about those videos you have posted, I read your "we are performing for Him" comment, but trust me, after much, much study and writing on the topic of worship, again, trust me, God does not need our performance...He has a ready supply of angels and all of creation that can put on a better show than we could ever dream of....Seems like choas to me...I know, I know, how can I understand, I cannot get the name of our God right, right?

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

I couldn't agree with you more. The pentecostals have learned this lesson throughout the years. Its a working process. Im gonna be honest. I don't shout and carry on most of the time. I love to watch! God has spoken to me mostly in quiet times alone. You see, thats when a pastor who is sensitive to the spirit can control the direction of the church. Sometimes a service can switch gears in a second. There is a point where the pastor needs to control and keeps things in order. we as humans can get out of hand. lol Our pastor once said,"dont think I won't stop you if I think your getting out of hand!"

Im remembering something Billy Cole once said, "when the man of God steps to the mic and wants your undivided attention, I don't care how good it feels inside, you need to sip it up!" lol

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

I love a good lively service. I am, after all, Pentecostal to the bone ... but ...

Once upon a time, a young pentecostal mother was involved in a pentecostal church in her home town. She went week after week. She enjoyed the lively music, the dancing, messages in tongues, open weeping, holy laughter, being slain in the spirit ... she loved it all.

But one day, as "the spirit" began to move and Brother Widebottom got up and started to dance; Sister Longhair (who would jump up and down and shout until the hairpins flew from her hair) began to jump and shout and two of the Youths began to sing "in the spirit" at the top of their lungs something happened to the young mother.

Suddenly a hhhhhhuuuuuusssssshhshhshshhshshshsh fell over her. She sat down in her pew and watched all the carryings on. She could still see everything she always had ... she still loved every one of these people ... but now she saw the activity from a different perspective.

Then God began to speak to her. He said just one sentence and it changed everything about her life. Quietly, deep in her soul, He said, "If I came in quietness ... would they hear me?"

Yes. God does come as excitement, noise and noisy praise ... but many times He comes as a still, small voice. One that can be drowned out by those well-meaning people who think only sound and movement express the inexpressible depth and wealth of the power of God and sometimes even think that IF they bounce and shout and dance enough, GOD WILL SHOW UP.

That "young pentecostal mother" is now an "old pentecostal grandmother" but she has never forgotten the lesson taught her by the "still, small voice" of God. I still enjoy excitement, noise and noisy praise ... but I find riches galore in the silent times, the peaceful times, the times when God whispers ... and I hear His whisper because I have followed His command to, "Be STILL ... and know that I am God!" aww

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Yes your right about that. Not at our church, I don't know, sorry you had a bad experience. I don't like it when christian artist repackage music like that. I don't listen to it, might as well listen to the original song.

In Spirit and in truth! yes thats it! That is key

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Hey Chris, I don't have any problem with the music used today from a praise stand point. I do have some reservations however with some so called worship music which can come accross as directing attention toward man and not God. Do a study on the word "worship" and learn what it means. See what Gods word has to say about worship, to whom it is to be directed and with what manner it was given to God. The "feelings" I have observed in the Pentecostal church, which I grew up in, for the most part border on excitment not a deep honor giving reverence. Then compare by listening to many of the words to worship songs today and discern where there emphasis is. Many are man centered.

Then there are those songs taken from the world who have some words changed and are sung in praise to our God. My wife still sings in the choir and they just learned a new praise song, "Celebration", good song with a great beat, from Kool and the Gang. Some of the words were changed to make it fit into the church. This should not be so. Read in many instances the instructions God gave the Israelites when they would conquer other peoples. They were to destroy all images, asphre poles and everything associated with that peoples form or idol worship, yet today, isn't this repackaging of worldly music and other forms of "marketing" similar to what Saul did when he did not completely destroy the Amalekites as God instructed. 1 Samuel 15. God will have no part of the world. In fact those who keep friendship with the world are enemies of God. James 4:4.

I am not saying God is to be worshiped in any certain way, just that worldy ways are not to be brought into his presense, he desires worship from true worshipers in spirit and truth. John 4:23.

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Hey sojourner "Stage performers?"

this is why we praise him!
Psa 47:6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.
Psa 47:7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with UNDERSTANDING!
Psa 47:8 God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his HOLINESS.
Psa 47:9 The princes of the people are gathered together, even the people of the God of Abraham: for the shields of the earth belong unto God: he is greatly exalted.

We Perform for him and him alone.
We pentecostals have this down pat, let me tell you! Atleast my chruch does. Here lately, almost every service has been packed with worship and praise. You have got to see this video!! this is what I am talking about. LOL sometimes when you think of his goodness you just can't help but give it to him!

Love you brother!!

-- Edited by Chris at 23:42, 2008-02-07

-- Edited by Chris at 23:44, 2008-02-07

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE AN APOSTOLIC MOVE OF GOD!! yes!
Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joe 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

This prophecy was reiterated by the apostle Peter on the day of Pentecost.

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

There is a blessing in the pressing, lol I just thought that up. The woman with a issue was healed becasue of her faith and persistant pressing, there is that barrier in the spirit that we need to get passed! They say right before you break the sound barrier is an extremely violent experience, but once you get past it, its smooth sailing, you are going faster than sound and it can only trail way behind you. (Isa 40:31) I have done this on many occasions and let me tell about the Peace that passes all understanding!! Its like youve reached the summit and the forsight he reveals, his voice is clearer, my destiny is sure, nothing else matters, this world and all of its lies becomes strangely dim, OH WHAT A FORTASTE OF GLORY DIVINE! Psa 27:8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

The Prophets of old spoke of these things!

-- Edited by Chris at 01:00, 2008-02-07

-- Edited by Chris at 21:30, 2008-02-07

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

I would never call myself a god, people are crazy, to me it seems to be a sign of pride. with that being said, I believe we do have a high position on this earth, even higher than the president. Adam had dominion over the earth until he lost it. Now satan has become the god of this world. (The great influencer) The one who has captured the hearts and minds of the masses. People worship musicians as gods and don't even realize what they are doing. Holywood or star worship is another illusion of satan. It is as these stars are in the place of God for many. Yet there is only One who holds this position, and he sits far above all. If God is King of kings, and Lord of lords. Then who is it that he is king of? i believe that when Revelations speaks of us ruling as kings and priest that he is speaking of us being below him in a position of a prince, or a king under that Great KING serving at his will. John said, "beloved now are we the sons of God and it doeth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know this, that when we shall see him we shall be like unto him for we shall see him as he is." That being the case, if I am a son and he is my father, I am a prince of a King. That means I am in a high position HERE on this earth. We have the ear of God, we are the apple of his eye, we are a royal priesthood.

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
And what a great reward that is!! To have him abiding in me!
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
It is as we have him or is it he has us, maybe both?
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Oh what great covenant we have with him. I like how the songs says

Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine! 
	O what a foretaste of glory divine! 
	Heir of salvation, purchase of God, 
	born of his Spirit, washed in his blood.

-- Edited by Chris at 00:37, 2008-02-07

-- Edited by Chris at 00:38, 2008-02-07

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

STRONGS EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE ENTRY FOR PSALM 82:6 'gods':
(plural)
1. rulers, judges
2. divine ones
3. angels
4. gods
(plural intensive - singular meaning)
1. god, goddess
2. godlike one
3. works or special possessions of God
4. the (true) God
5. God
The word 'gods' here is elohim and does not particularly designate God the Father (Jehovah). What no one seems to see is that, according to the first verse of the chapter, God is pronouncing judgment on the heavenly beings. What more is there to say?

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

A mormon confronted me with this verse. what do you think it means. I believe I know, but I want to see what you guys have to say about this. These verses are in the bible for a reason we can't deny they are there.

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

IF I am going to give my money to anyone it is going to be my home church, someone in need, or my family. People just need to do this.

I believe in the Word of Faith, but not for financial success, but for spiritual success. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; some testimonies increase my faith through the roof. I know of men who have spoken word of faith Like, "I command this body be made whole in the name of Jesus" and they were healed
You want to hear some real apostolic preaching you have got watch this. Investigate it, I should say. He died of a heart attack, was resurrected by God and completely heal of this issue. He tells a story of a modern day apostle who witness to an al qaida leader and he got saved!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4414419684318645240&q=Lee+Stoneking&total=21&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

or go to GOOGLE select the video option and type "Lee stoneking SP8"

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

That still doesn't explain what it says in Isaiah.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Either God is trying to confuse me or someone else is. JESUS spoke, walked, prayed, got baptized, was filled with the spirit, as an example for us.
If anything, there seems to be 2, not 3, but to me there is only 1 becasue it was settle long before the church age.

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Chris
We don't "just read negative news" ... we read a lot of positive things too. But I know that Bob W. has a deep and abiding calling to see that as many people as possible find the TRUE God of the Bible and not the false god promised by Word of Faith teachers. And he sees this board as his vehicle to do that.
I also know that I, too, feel a strong desire to rescue as many people as possible from the deception that comes straight from the Garden of Eden where Satan told Eve, "You shall be as gods!" This is what Kenneth Copeland and many other WoF preachers say ... in fact, Copeland declares that we "ARE" gods!
I was caught up with Copeland long before he ever announced that he and his followers were gods ... in fact, that was part of what opened my eyes. NOW I want to free as many as possible from that horrible, legalistic and crippling teaching.

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

John 20:17
Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God." I know it's a quibbling point, but by my count that's 2 at least. Jesus and his Father.

-- Edited by Sojourner at 18:19, 2008-02-04

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

How did you come to believe that God wants you to investigate all this stuff? Its got to be discourageing to just read negative news all the time. Investigate the UPCI (united pentecostal church international) I love these people. what have you found about them, or have you ever heard about them? We don't have any tele-evangelist.

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

wordworker

First off let me say, I love trinitarians, I have good friends that are trinitarians, I don't believe that they are lost people just a little misinformed about the Godhead. Please, I dont have time to read all you have to say about the mormons, I worked for and with them for 7 years, I know what they believe, yes they believe that they are gods in embryonic state, BUT they believe that the GOD's that we worship on this earth is a triundeity God the father, God the ect.. would you please then explain these verses for me.

Isa 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Joe 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God(singular), and none else(like I said): and my people shall never be ashamed.
Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out MY spirit upon all flesh. . .(this is happening today, pentecostal movement is the fastest growing)
When jesus came to earth, he came with limited power and knowledge(e.g. hungered, tempeted, tired, death), he came as an example for us to be, SONS of God just as he was.(jn1:12,1jn3:1-2)
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
almost sounds like Jesus talking in the book of Revelations
(Isa 9:6) the son that was born was the everlasting father(spirit incarnate), and prince of peace (Jesus Christ)
Col 2:9 For in him(christ) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The mystery of the ages has now been revealed to us in a body we can now see, before no man can see him, now forever in eternity he will forever be revealed as the one who washed us with his own blood. He stand at the RIGHT HAND(all authority and power, hand of blessing,) as ruler.
In a position which we will one day sit, Rev 3:21
Shall i continue the old testiment typology about the right hand?

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Welcome, newbie Chris ... many of the people who post here are trinitarian and some are not ... doesn't matter ... we all need to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling according to Paul.
As long as we have submitted ourselves to the sovereign Lord Jesus that is okay with me.
However, I do have some issues with you.
First ... Jesus said, "all power ..." THEN he said he did not know the time of His coming ... ONLY THE FATHER KNEW. oooops.
Mormons are NOT trinitarian ... they believe in many gods ... a different god for each "world" and that "God is the only god WITH WHOM WE HAVE TO DO." Meaning that they believe there is one god for earth and another god for ... say ... Mars. As for "god the mother" ... no they don't believe that women can be "gods" and rule a planet, world or universe ... they believe that women may only be "goddesses" and their eternal destiny is to bear "spirit children" for their husband gods to populate their husband's planet, world or universe. oooops again.
ALSO they don't believe in ETERNAL (from all time past to all time future) gods at all ... "As man is, god once was ... As god is, man may become..." that's their watchword ... that is THEIR belief. hate to say it but ... oooops #3.

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Have you any idea what "THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN" really means?
It means saying, "God said..." when God didn't say.

Hold on first of all, GOD isn't his name, it is Jesus.

Second, there is only one God and Jesus is his name.
Jesus said, "All power in HEAVEN and in EARTH hath been given unto me." If he received all power, then that doesn't leave much for anyone else, for the other 2 gods. Mormons are trinitaryian, and you want to know where else they go outside the trinity, God the mother. If theres a father and a eternal son, well wheres the mother?