Where in the Scripture does it state that we are to "wrangle" or be "contentious" about the time of day? Does not the Word state that "now is the day of salvation"? Knowing about the day that Jesus was actually crucified, does it benefit the actual plan of salvation? The Gospel according to the Apostle Paul is knowing that Jesus died, was buried, but GOD raised Him up on the third day according to the Scriptures. Jesus is not on the cross, neither is He in a grave, HE IS RISEN and seated at the right hand of the Heavenly Father, and is our Mediator of a New Covenant, and our Advocate, and ever makes intercession for us (those who have accepted Him as Lord, and Saviour). Presented here are just a few Scriptures, please forgive the length.
Titus 3:8
King James Version (KJV)
8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Titus 3:8
Amplified Bible (AMP)
8This message is most trustworthy, and concerning these things I want you to insist steadfastly, so that those who have believed in (trusted in, relied on) God may be careful to apply themselves to honorable occupations and to doing good, for such things are [not only] excellent and right [in themselves], but [they are] good and profitable for the people.
9But avoid stupid and foolish controversies and genealogies and dissensions and wrangling about the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile.
Wouldn't it be more profitable for each one trying to get sinners to repent, to present the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Apostle Paul did.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
King James Version (KJV)
1 Corinthians 15
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Amplified Bible (AMP)
1 Corinthians 15
1AND NOW let me remind you [since it seems to have escaped you], brethren, of the Gospel (the glad tidings of salvation) which I proclaimed to you, which you welcomed and accepted and upon which your faith rests,
2And by which you are saved, if you hold fast and keep firmly what I preached to you, unless you believed at first without effect and all for nothing.
3For I passed on to you first of all what I also had received, that Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) died for our sins in accordance with [what] the Scriptures [foretold],
4That He was buried, that He arose on the third day as the Scriptures foretold,
A bit of instruction from the Apostle Paul on how to be saved:
Romans 10:8-13
King James Version (KJV)
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:8-13
Amplified Bible (AMP)
8But what does it say? The Word (God's message in Christ) is near you, on your lips and in your heart; that is, the Word (the message, the basis and object) of faith which we preach,
9Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.
11The Scripture says, No man who believes in Him [who adheres to, relies on, and trusts in Him] will [ever] be put to shame or be disappointed.
12[No one] for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord is Lord over all [of us] and He generously bestows His riches upon all who call upon Him [in faith].
13For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved.
The Holy Ghost wrote the Bible. It is all important. Your attempt to trivialize His teachings is disrespectful to God.
Knowing the truth about when a day begins is a witnessing tool to those cults that are locked into another mindset and destined for hell. It is a major attack upon the Body of Christ to have changed the times (Daniel 7:25).
Knowing the truth about when a day begins clears up the confusion taught in mainstream Christian circles about the timing of the Last Supper, THE CRUCIFXION AND WHEN HIS BLOOD WAS SHED FOR YOUR SINS AND MINE, Passover, and the Resurrection.
Instead of everyone getting hung up on when a day starts, why not just explain to all who will listen that Jesus died and was risen. I am not convinced that this topic is that relevant. It seems that it is similar to arguing as to whether Jesus had long hair or short hair. What does it really matter? The main thing is to explain that Jesus was who He said He was and what He did for us to gain our salvation. Far too many people get hung up on the little things and get sidetracked from the original command for us to go unto all the word and Share the Gospel.
I feel that Jesus would say to us that while we were so busy trying to convince everyone on what day He died and what day He rose from the dead, many people will miss the true message He wanted us to share.
I am open to listening if anyone would like to share how they believe the time of day is relevant to anyones salvation? Looking forward to hearing back.
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A preacher in those days, when he felt God called him to preach, didn't hunt up a college or seminary, he hunted up a good horse, took off across the country and began crying "Behold the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sins of the world"!
Your nonsense cannot argue against thousands of years of Jewish habit and tradition. The Bible clearly states "the evening and the morning" were the first day.
Not going to say another word or dignify this idiocy any further.
Dear Wordworker,
I am sorry that you consider Scripture to be nonsense and idiocy. And I am sorry that you believe the Scriptures are a lie. Why do you post here if you are not a Christian that believes in the Bible?
Also, what makes you think that for thousands of years the Hebrews had a habit and tradition that a day does not begin at sunrise? The Scriptures clearly show that was not true while the Son of God walked the Earth (my paragraph 7 on previous post), and of course all the way back to Genesis too. Please, be more specific. Which of the Scriptures I quoted do you disagree with and where?
Your nonsense cannot argue against thousands of years of Jewish habit and tradition. The Bible clearly states "the evening and the morning" were the first day. Not going to say another word or dignify this idiocy any further.
__________________
"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
Sorry for the delay. I lost your URL address and have been quite busy. In answer to your last question, I have a thirteen paragraph teaching on it that I have prepared. I will share the first seven paragraphs now. If you are not convinced or want more, then I can post those as well.
Have a nice day, zeke25
A Day Begins At Sunrise
1. Genesis 1:5 KJV, "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." Genesis 1:5 TIB, "And God called the light, Day, And He called the darkness, Night. And there was evening, and there was morning the first day." I should be more charitable, but I have to say, it is only common sense that the day ends and begins at sunrise. The events of the first day are described, then we are told that evening has arrived (in this case evening means sundown), then morning arrives and the first day has been completed. This is a chronological rendering of the first day's activity until we reach the end of the first day. This chronological pattern is repeated through the first six days of creation throughout Genesis chapter one. Because many have erroneously been taught all their life that a day begins at sundown, when they read Genesis 1:5, what they read becomes completely twisted in their minds and defying all logic, common sense, and plain writing their minds tell them that a day begins at sundown. How can this be? With the power of suggestion constantly repeated through the years, fact becomes fiction, and fiction becomes fact. But this only happens in the mind. The bruised mind needs healing. Let the healing begin now.
2. Exodus 12:6 TIB, "And it shall be for you to keep until the fourteenth day of this month. And all the assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it between the evenings." The word day (Strong's H3117 yowm) means the hot time of day, between sunrise and sunset. Many contend that the Hebrew Tenach (Old Testament) day began at sunset. This defies all logic. This interpretation requires further misinterpretations to follow. For example, in this very Scripture "between the evenings" would have to mean between sunset and dark, rather than its proper meaning of noon (the first even) to sunset (the second even). Even/evening is Strong's H6153 ereb. This author believes that "between the evenings" can not only be used as any time between noon and sundown, but also it is sometimes used as a more specific time of day; i.e., half way between noon and sunset, which is approximately 3 PM in our current way of reckoning time. If a day begins at sunset, then Exodus 12:6 makes no sense. The Israelites were instructed to select the Passover lamb on Abib ten and to kill it on Abib fourteen. If a day begins at sunset, how can they kill the lamb on the fourteenth day if they must wait until sundown, which would be after the fourteenth, in fact it would be the fifteenth when the lamb was slain. If a day begins at sunset, then the instructions would have been to keep the lamb until the fifteenth of the month to kill it. A day begins at sunrise, not sunset. There is one misinterpretation piled on top of another misinterpretation, it gets worse and worse. Most translations will not even show that Exodus 12:6 is originally written as "between the evenings", instead they leave out "between the" and simply say "evening" as a singular word, not a plural; trying to reinforce the misconception that the lamb was to be sacrificed after sundown after the fourteenth and beginning on the fifteenth. The confusion is mind boggling. The confusion is eliminated in this incidence and many others with a simple understanding that a day begins at sunrise.
3. Exodus 12:8,14 KJV, "8And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it." In this Scripture, the eating of the lamb (the sacrificing of the lamb occurred a few hours earlier) is being spoken of. The feasting is occurring at night (Strong's H3915 layelah), after sundown. "14And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to [Yahowah] throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever." Verse fourteen states that this "day" shall be a memorial; however, verse eight just explained that the eating will take place at "night". If, as some speculate, that sundown/night begins a new day, how can Exodus 12:8 and 12:14 be reconciled? The answer is simple, they can only be reconciled if the night, following the daylight hours is still part of the same day. In this case that day is Abib 14 that goes from sunrise, past sunset, and only ends at the next sunrise.
4. Exodus 29:38-39 KJV, "38Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually. 39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even."Exodus 29:38-39 TIB, "38And this is what you shall offer on the altar: two lambs daily, sons of a year; 39 the one lamb you shall offer in the morning, and the second lamb you shall offer between the evenings." If between the evenings means between sunset and dark, as some speculate (and some societies have practiced this in history), then how can two lambs be sacrificed daily (Strong's 3117 yowm)? Daily means during the heat of the day, in other words during daylight hours. Lamb one is sacrificed in the morning, lamb two, if sacrificed after sunset has been sacrificed at night, not in the day light as this Scripture instructs. This Scripture shows that between the evenings does not mean between sunset and dark. Also, if you think that a day begins at sunset and that between the evenings means after sunset, how do you reconcile this Scripture to that line of thought? Even if you expand the meaning of daily to include the time period from sunset to sunset, how can these errors bring anything but confusion to this Scripture. The first lamb was to be killed in the morning. If the second lamb was to be killed after sunset, then we are speaking of two days. So, why does not the Scripture say that the first lamb was to be killed between the evenings, and the second to be killed in the morning? It mentions the morning lamb first, because the morning is the beginning of a day. It mentions the second lamb as being killed between the evenings, because that is midafternoon, definitely prior to sundown.
5. Leviticus 23:27 KJV, "Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto [Yahowah]." The tenth day of the seventh month begins at sunrise and ends the following sunrise. This Day of Atonement, this sabbath, is mentioned in several places with similar instructions. Only in Leviticus 23 are additional instructions added that further describe when this sabbath is supposed to begin and end. Leviticus 23:32 KJV, "It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath." The Day of Atonement is the only sabbath that these additional instructions apply to. Leviticus 23:32 does not apply to other sabbaths or special days. In other words, God has specified that the Day of Atonement is to begin on the ninth day of the seventh month, He does not want the Hebrews to wait until the tenth day to begin this sabbath. The Hebrews are to begin this sabbath twelve hours early, at even (in this case the second even or sunset) on the ninth and continue it until sunset or the second even on the tenth. There may be reasons why Yahowah wanted this sabbath to be different than many others, but the scope of this treatise is to define a day, not to digress into other doctrines. These Scriptures in Leviticus help to clarify the beginning and ending of a day, perhaps even more than other Scriptures. If the tenth of the month began at sunset there would have been no need to give these additional instructions; and there would have definitely been no need to mention the ninth of the month, because the ninth would have been irrelevant.
6. Second Chronicles 35:14 KJV, "And afterward they made ready for themselves, and for the priests: because the priests the sons of Aaron were busied in offering of burnt offerings and the fat until night (Strong's H3915 layelah); therefore the Levites prepared for themselves, and for the priests the sons of Aaron." It is best to read the fifteenth chapter through verse nineteen, in order to understand this is the story of King Josiah of Judah and the passover celebration that was kept during his reign, circa 649-609 BC. As the story unfolds, it is obvious that the slaying and roasting of the animals is occurring during the daylight hours of Abib 14, and according to this verse fourteen, this continued until nightfall. Only after sundown, did the passover feast or meal begin: "therefore the Levites prepared for themselves, and for the priests." This Passover celebrated in King Josiah's time is repeated as it was in Exodus 12. The animals were slain in the daytime; this is the Passover sacrifice. The cooking of the meat was then begun. Then, after sundown, the Passover Feast, the actual eating of the cooked meat, begins. There is no mention in Exodus 12, nor here in Second Chronicles 35, nor in any other place in the Bible, that a new day has begun and now the Passover Feast was occurring on Abib 15, rather than on Abib 14. In other words, once again, the fact that a day does not end or begin at sunset is reinforced.
7. Matthew 14:15-23 KJV, "15 And when it was evening (Strong's G3798 apsios), his disciples came to him, saying, This is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude away, that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals. 16 But [Yahoshua] said unto them, They need not depart; give ye them to eat. 17 And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes. 18 He said, Bring them hither to me. 19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude. 20 And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full. 21 And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children. 22 And straightway [Yahoshua] constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. 23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening (Strong's G3798 apsios) was come, he was there alone." Have you doubted that there might be two even/evenings in a day according to Hebrew or Biblical time keeping, and that the first evening is noontime and the second evening is sunset? This story in Matthew 14 should set this doubt to rest. The first evening occurred in verse fifteen and the second occurred in verse twenty-three. In between these two evenings we see that five thousand men, not counting the women and children, were feed, and the disciplines then gathered up twelve basketfuls of leftovers. Then the disciplines got into a boat and sailed away, while Yahoshua dismissed the crowd of ten to fifteen thousand people. Then Yahoshua walked or climbed up a mountain and then He began to pray until evening came yet again. Would anyone care to venture a guess as to how many hours transpired between these two evenings? A reasonable estimate would be two plus hours to distribute and consume the bread and fish. Another hour to gather the leftovers. Another half hour to an hour to send the disciples away and to dismiss the crowds. You can be sure that no one wanted to leave the presence of Yahoshua and He must have nearly pleaded with them to depart. Three to four hours have easily passed now since the first evening. Now Yahoshua had to ascend a mountain and pray until the second evening. How long did He pray before the second evening arrived? We do not know, but He most likely continued to pray until after dark. After all, in verse twenty-five, Yahoshua did not join His disciples until the fourth watch of the night, which would have been between 3 AM and sunrise.
I never said Jesus was KILLED on Passover ... I SAID he was buried just BEFORE the special Sabbath of Passover.
If the day did not begin at sundown why does Genesis say over and over, "And the EVENING AND THE MORNING WAS THE FIRST (SECOND, THIRD, ETC.) DAY."?
__________________
"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
No one can be quite as definite about the timing of the crucifixion as you seem. In the first place, Passover is not a static holy day that always falls on Friday ... Passover, lilke all Jewish holy days, follows the phases of the moon ... However, whenever Passover occurs (on whatever day of the week) that day is considered a special "Sabbath". Tradition calls for crucifixion on Friday and Resurrection on Sunday. You (and many others -- count me among them!) feel that doesn't leave enough time to fulfill Jesus prophecy. However, when you consider that Jesus TOOK OUR SINS UPON HIMSELF, WAS CRUCIFIED AND CONQUERED DEATH FOR US BY HIS RESURRECTION ... it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to "quibble" over on what day his crucifixion occurred. In fact, in your own calculation you have forgotten one major issue ... in the Hebrew culture, the day BEGINS at sundown. In other words, at 5 p.m. it may be Wednesday but, if the sun sets at 5:01 p.m. then 5:02 p.m. is Thursday. He would NOT have been buried after sundown, because THEN he would have been buried on the Sabbath! NO ... Jesus ... God Himself, Son of God, Savior of Man ... died for us, crucifying our sins with himself, was buried BEFORE sundown and, by sunup on the first day of the week, he had risen and conquered death not only for himself but for us as well. That's all I need to know because THAT is what lets me know my life in Christ is eternal and I will spend eternity with Him.
Hello Wordworker,
If you are satisfied with the fact that Yahoshua died for and paid for our sins, that is fine. But there are many who attack the gospel of Christ and His atonement by attacking what they consider inconsistencies in the text. In fact, one false church builds false doctrine after false doctrine based upon erroneous things taught about the timing of the Last Supper and the crucifixion. They teach a blasphemous eucharist and idol worship based upon this timing. Most of the world looks to this religious mother of harlots as the pinnacle of Christianity in the world today based upon the timing of the crucifixion as they teach. Most non-Catholic churches and Protestant churches teach this same heresy about the timing of the crucifixion. It is far more important an issue than you have been exposed to before. I have gone a little deeper and can explain it all, but it is not a short explanation.
I will reply to a couple of your comments.
Yes, one can be definite about the timing of the crucifixion.
Passover is a static day in the Bible calendar. It is not a static day in the modern Hebrew calendar, nor Gregory's calendar. The modern Hebrew calendar was not in use when Yahoshua walked the Earth as a man.
The Bible teaches that a day begins at sunrise, not sundown. The modern Jews have been duped on this false doctrine as well. It was not so when Yahoshua walked the Earth or before - all the way back to Genesis 1:1. And this is important because Matthew 27:57-58 KJV teaches that Yahoshua was buried after sundown. If He was buried after sundown and if the false notion that a new day begins at sundown, then He indeed was buried on a high sabbath. And all the planning of the Pharisees was for nothing. But since a new day begins at sunrise, the fact that He was buried the previous evening after sunset is not a problem.
But once again, if you are satisfied with what you know now, that's up to you. But please do not teach people that Yahoshua was killed on Passover, it didn't happen, and if it did the wrath of God would surely have turned Jerusalem into a cinder.
No one can be quite as definite about the timing of the crucifixion as you seem. In the first place, Passover is not a static holy day that always falls on Friday ... Passover, lilke all Jewish holy days, follows the phases of the moon ... However, whenever Passover occurs (on whatever day of the week) that day is considered a special "Sabbath". Tradition calls for crucifixion on Friday and Resurrection on Sunday. You (and many others -- count me among them!) feel that doesn't leave enough time to fulfill Jesus prophecy. However, when you consider that Jesus TOOK OUR SINS UPON HIMSELF, WAS CRUCIFIED AND CONQUERED DEATH FOR US BY HIS RESURRECTION ... it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to "quibble" over on what day his crucifixion occurred. In fact, in your own calculation you have forgotten one major issue ... in the Hebrew culture, the day BEGINS at sundown. In other words, at 5 p.m. it may be Wednesday but, if the sun sets at 5:01 p.m. then 5:02 p.m. is Thursday. He would NOT have been buried after sundown, because THEN he would have been buried on the Sabbath! NO ... Jesus ... God Himself, Son of God, Savior of Man ... died for us, crucifying our sins with himself, was buried BEFORE sundown and, by sunup on the first day of the week, he had risen and conquered death not only for himself but for us as well. That's all I need to know because THAT is what lets me know my life in Christ is eternal and I will spend eternity with Him.
__________________
"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
Matthew 12:40 KJV, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." I have seen that many ministries teach that Yahoshua was crucified on Passover (Friday) and raised from the dead the following Sunday. This doesn't leave room for three days and three nights to have occurred. But since the Last Supper occurred on Wednesday, and He was tortured and killed on Thursday and buried after sundown, with the Passover yet to come on Friday, then the count works out. Thursday (even though only part of a day) is day 1, Friday is day 2, and Saturday is day 3. Thursday night is night 1, Friday night is night 2, and Saturday night (even though only part of a night) is night 3. Would anyone care to hear more?
