You are right. God rewarded the woman for her faith ... but it was because He saw that even if she was denied what she wanted she would STILL believe in Jesus. Faith is a gift of God ... we cannot grit our teeth, hang onto the edge of faith by our fingernails, repeat over and over "I believe, I believe" and expect God to do anything for us. There are times when I have all the faith in the world (I remember a time, for instance when I fed six adults and two children with three pork steaks and the only folks who shared one were the two children ... it never occurred to me that I didn't have enough to feed everyone when three teens from a bad home told me they had nothing in their house to eat! I just told them they were welcome to join us and it wasn't until everyone had a pork steak, potatoes and green beans on their plates that I realized what had happened!) And there are times when I don't have any faith at all that God is going to answer my prayer ... whatever the circumstance, God has promised that HE will remain faithful (2 Tim. 2:13). And that means that WHATEVER happens in the Christian's life is within the will of God.
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
"IT was STILL Jesus' own grace and mercy that did the job.
WE CANNOT FORCE GOD TO DO WHAT WE WANT. Any more than we can force our parents to do what we want by demanding it. Sometimes what we want isn't what is good for us and God, in His mercy, WILL NOT ALWAYS give us what we want. He gives us WHAT WE NEED. Remember that old saying, "Be careful what you ask for... you just might get it."?"
Actually, it was God's GRACE and mercy that did the job. Read what Jesus said about it. JESUS stated that HE did nothing but what HE saw the Father do, and He always did those things that pleased the Father. Jesus also said that He did not come to do His own will, but the will of the Father who sent Him. Then Jesus said, that He only spoke the words that His Father told Him to speak, or another way that He said this is: The words that you hear are not My words, but the words of Him who sent Me.
Where in the aforementioned passage does it indicate that anyone was "forcing" God to do something, or what we want? If you actually READ the passage, GOD did exactly what is written in HEBREWS 11: 6. God "rewarded" the woman with what she came with faith for, and willed in her heart for her daughter.
Also, in the entirety of the passage, Jesus stated that what the woman was seeking for her daughter (deliverance and healing) was "the children's bread.
Would not this statement reveal some of the will of God for His children? And, if we are born-again believer's, doesn't that mean we are His children? (see Romans 8: 14 - 17, and the suffering that is mentioned is not indicative of sickness or disease, but of suffering persecution, tests, and trials[again, these are not sickness nor disease], for this see some of the persecution that Paul the Apostle suffered in 2 Cor. chapter 11)
what you never heard of sex out of marriage a sin,you are having sex out of marriage when you perform this act,don't make a mistake because in your mind you think it is ok it's not,especially if you are a temple holy and undefiled.this is a selfish act done because you want to indulge in your flesh,stop doing it and i bet you will feel better about yourself,it is not natural.
It seems like this back and forth about getting what we want and such is getting out of hand, can any one please tell me what is getting what you want? when most think of this materials come to mind. What I want is peace of mind, content, forgiveness, love, hope and mercy to name a few, all these things the LORD wants to give the most. Content is extremely important and without it leads to all types of sin. Remember sin always wants what it can't have. never satisfied. To always want is a sad way to go, it is really a dive at desperation, then if you do get it, then what, obviously more of the same as it would be a lie to say otherwise, b/c you haven't learned to be content.
IT was STILL Jesus' own grace and mercy that did the job.
WE CANNOT FORCE GOD TO DO WHAT WE WANT. Any more than we can force our parents to do what we want by demanding it. Sometimes what we want isn't what is good for us and God, in His mercy, WILL NOT ALWAYS give us what we want. He gives us WHAT WE NEED. Remember that old saying, "Be careful what you ask for... you just might get it."?
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
a "RANTER" ... (someone who has a single subject they harp on constantly)
Sounds like what those dear old teachers did in grade school when they were trying to get the students to "learn" something, such as 2 + 2 = 4, then progression to multiplication tables, division, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus. SHAME on those teachers for being ranters.
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION THAT WAS PRESENTED CONCERNING THE VERSES FOUND IN MATTHEW 15:
26 But He answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is your faith: be it unto thee even as you will. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. The question that was presented was this: WHOSE FAITH DID JESUS SPEAK ABOUT, AND WHOSE WILL DID JESUS MENTION?
WE haven't started deleting posts because "we can't take the heat" ... we've started deleting because some people were posting so much and so often on a single subject that everyone else's posts got buried in the landslide of false doctrine that these folks were promoting.
It isn't "because of the filtering" that people aren't posting anymore.
It's because for so long there was NO filtering and all the posters became discouraged when certain posters began a campaign to take over the board for the Word of Faith doctrine. No matter what was being discussed or who was being researched, there were one or two people who would post long, discursive rants promoting the "Name it and Claim it" doctrines that this site was set up to defend against.
It was several months before Bob Wise and I talked about and decided to change the practice of allowing all posters "free-expression" when we realized that everyone else had stopped posting ... probably in fear that whatever they posted would just be taken over by the Word of Faithers.
So now, we are in a rebuilding phase ... hoping our old friends will return and new friends will join us now that they know it's safe to post again.
As for those of you who believe the Word of Faith doctrines, you, too are welcome to post here ... as long as you keep your posts reasonable, in-line with whatever the thread topic is and don't become a "RANTER" ... (someone who has a single subject they harp on constantly) or an "ATTACKER" ... (someone who turns every opinion into an occasion to attack other posters).
I am monitoring the boards now and will delete the posts of those who are or who develop into ranters or attackers. I will do this after a single (or couple) of warnings. Other than that, please feel free to say what you wish, ask questions, whatever ... as long as your posts are neither rants or attacks.
-- Edited by wordworker on Wednesday 16th of December 2009 10:07:35 AM
-- Edited by wordworker on Wednesday 16th of December 2009 10:34:18 AM
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
Wordworker, I noticed nobody comes to this sight anymore, because of the deletions and filtering, why? If we can't take a little heat and and disagreement over the net. then how can one handle persacution?
I could declare that "There is only one sin" ... and, in God's eyes, I'd be right.
That sin is rebellion against God. Whenever we "commit a sin" (whether it is telling a lie, committing adultery or murder) we are opposing God's commandments to strive for holiness. ... we are REBELLING AGAINST GOD'S WORD.
And that is where the sin lies.
Another way to look at it is: Every human in the world ... from Adam to the last human standing at the end of the world ... benefits from the death of Jesus and we are all guilty of taking part in his murder ... Therefore, we are ALL guilty of the greatest sin possible -- the murder of the Son of God! How can we possibly say one person's sin is greater than another when we are all guilty of the greatest sin of all?
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
wordworker is right on, have you not studied others, paul it's not his job to judge those outside the church. But I have seen foolish people say a drug addict cannot come to church, really but they let the gossiper in? you judge sin on a sliding scale, you can make sure of this, on judgement day, you will be guilty!
The pastor's main function is to teach and lead the people of God. Yes. They preach to sinners as well but there is a distinct calling to those who God would have concentrate on preaching the salvation message to sinners and that calling is called "Evangelist". That is what Billy Graham was called to do ... he never pastored because he was certain of his calling to "Evangelize" (in modern English, he would be called a "Good News-er"). A Pastor's calling is to love and pray for and guide and teach a group of people who have already heard the "good news" and are now ready to learn and grow and become mature Christians.
The difference is sort of like the difference between an obstetrician and pediatrician. The former may diagnose a disease in a newborn but his main job is "catching the baby." The latter may have to occasionally "catch a baby" but his main job is to make sure that baby becomes a full-grown adult by keeping him healthy.
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SCHOOL TO STUDY?THIS IS FOR WHEN U SAID PASTORS DON'T PREACH TO SINNERS,ME OR LIKE OTHER DISCIPLES BRING SINNERS TO CHURCH LET THE PREACHING DEAL WITH THEIR HEART AND THE HOLY GHOST TO TAKE THE WORD PREACHED AND CONVICT SINNERS,HOPEFULLY RESULTING IN ANSWERING A ALTAR CALL,THE ALTAR IS WHERE EVERYTHING GETS DONE,PEOPLE REPENT GET DELIVERED,ANSWER GOD'S CALL IN THEIR LIFE,IF YOU ARE IN A CHURCH LIVING A CLEAN LIFE YOU ARE CALLED BY GOD OUT OF SIN,LET GOD DECIDE IF YOU ARE CALLED TO PREACH MY BROTHER.
Much of what you say is true ... but there IS a true church ... that is the church that is made up of the believers. No building, no denomination, no leader is perfect, is "God's image on earth" ... but Paul said that WE are the church. WE, joined together to worship God and serve Him, are the church. When we are in a place where there is no acceptable house of worship or body of believers (a very rare occurrence, especially here in the States) then you are right ... a Bible, a pure heart and prayer is all we need and God will sustain us in that situation ... but when there are bodies of believers (whether they meet in a designated building, are called by the name of a denomination or are just a group of Christians who meet to study the Word and worship Christ) ... then Paul said not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. They might not believe exactly as you do ... but if they preach Christ and him crucified, risen and coming again then you need to associate yourself with them. For example, right now I am helping a local church which has no music if I am not there to play for them. I don't agree with everything they teach. I don't always approve of their policies ... but THEY need the help and GOD has equipped me to fill their need. I come from an emotional church background and these folks are not very emotional ... I miss that aspect of worship ... but I get fed every week through the teaching of the Word. When you come with a humble and willing heart and meet with folks who love the Lord, the feast is always there for the taking. Why subsist on a meal you prepare for yourself when you can take advantage of a full potluck???
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
There is no true church. Church's are not necessary to worship. What is important is what's in our hearts for our bodies are the Temples of the Lord. All we need is our faith, our Bibles, a pure heart, and prayer.
Masturbation is natural, normal, and healthy. It does not harm the body which I do believe is God's temple. Smoking, drinking, over eating, hating, judging others; these are sins yet people do it every day and think nothing of it. Eating fish that don't have gills or scales is a sin also, yet we eat them anyway and think nothing of it. WE are born into sin, live in sin, and will die in sin. This is why we go to Jesus in prayer, for forgiveness, and our sins are forgiven for we only have to ask Him to forgive them.
I have read alot now about the a lying church a.k.a. a true church, your first error darwin fish is you flat out tell people in specific there going to hell. this is sin since you have exalted yourself as the final judge. since darwin doesn't know what will happen in his own life tommorrow, but he can tell specific people where there going when they die. Those who study history want a good laugh or cry. How ironic, this darwin fish name. The biggest opposition to christianity in the last 150 years and maybe 2,000. Charles Darwin, this guy is named after him. And of course the upside down fish. Do not get me wrong salvation is not in a name. but darwin fish has no clue to what saves. He says he doesn't want to not honor his father and mother by changing it. it appears he thinks it would break the commandment. Was paul and abraham breaking the commandment. so obviously we can see changing your name would not be dishonorable. On the contrary, if he wanted to save others he would change his name. If my name was nazi hitler wouldn't a believer change his name. of course. Because I know it would be harder to win people to christ. more to come later.
Can someone please verify for me on this church website the person on the top right is actually saying jesus caused 9/11, because if it is this is all we need to know if there true or not, so there testimony is we as people cannot be held accountable for our actions, there testimony is god did not give us free will. they will say god created good and evil, uh yeah, duh, without the option of evil, there is no free choice, people please understand this is why god is love, we have free choice, we screwed up, we sinned, now we have free salvation. another choice! If god is the cause of evil, none of us could ever be saved thinking this, why? God would be blamed for everything. We could never know what comes from god, the devil or our own sinful being, we would still be lost! for all those who know jesus, and he knows them, they know his voice! Otherwise you are not a christian!!!! ntyandaha if you ever read this, do not be worried or afraid of these liars, according to them they have 50-60 church members and they are the only one who knows the truth, so 2,000,000,000 christians are wrong. The path is a few, but a little more than that!!!
-- Edited by jpd78 on Friday 11th of September 2009 02:24:52 PM
In reply to mr masturbation,this is a sexual sin,since it is done against your own body,your body is the temple of the holy spirit,it is sexual immorality,it is a selfish desire a very selfish deed,and who ever you are thinking about whether a man or woman it is committing fornication,or if the person is married then adultery,jesus said whomever looks at a woman to ust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart,matt 5;28,matt 6;23,rom 8;5-14,rom 1;18-32.masterbation leads to perversion,pornography,to homosexuality,to fornication and adultery,our body is no longer our own,it is the temple of the holy spirit and we are not to defile it,or ration in our own minds it is ok because it satisfies us,makes us feel good,relieves us,these are all selfish desires our flesh and our carnal nature we are not to indulge in these,we are to be spiritualy minded,it is all a learning experience for us all,especially because we have the mercy of god for our lives,we have to learn from our mistakes which makes us stronger,so we in turn can help someone else out going thru the same trials,or thinking it's ok.
I looked on the main page of their site and on of the posters they had up right in front was, (JESUS CAUSED 9/11) obviously if thats what they believe and it looks like it does, it appears they shall be called (THE TRULY FALSE CHURCH). if 9/11 is gods judgement on america than we caused it and he executed it!
hey wordworker, i must clear some things up for you, your answer was right in your words, when paul talks about meat he is just talking about meat. you have said it! Key word , fantasy, meaning what? it's untrue harry potter is fantasy to? should I let my kids watch? oh it won't hurt onetime, If something is not true, then what? it's obviously a lie. should the truth be bent, just cause the day and age we live? since you are talking to a person that commited this sin thousands and thousands of times and discussed this subject in every shape and form with many people from the past. for one your hurting yourself, your view on woman your sense of right and wrong becomes a little further and further. until rationalization sets in, then Im not hurting anyone, it's just every once in awhile, I'll stop tommorrow, I cant overcome this, so it must not be a sin, need more? is this just me or is this what the sinful mind goes through?
Masturbation is something that must be decided upon by the individual. For some people, eating meat is a sin ... for others, drinking wine is a sin ... Others have learned that ANYthing done in excess is sin. If you masturbate constantly ... if you wander into sinful thoughts about specific people ... if you can no longer control your urge to masturbate or if it takes the place of your worship of God ... it's a sin. To create a fantasy person to masturbate when pressure mounts and there is no spouse to participate is not defrauding anyone ... as long as the fantasy person is just that ... total fantasy. Sometimes, married couples enjoy mutual masturbation, especially when one spouse is unable to fulfill the sexual needs of their partner. (For instance, one may be paralyzed or suffering from a disease that makes sex difficult or impossible.) Hope that helps clarify MY thoughts about it.
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
I have to recently came across this site, and see they have a couple of errors, while in one spot they ridicule someone for relying on logic, it seems they have no logic, the issue of masturabation. they say its not sin but do not explain in detail why. this used to be a horrible sin for me. now when a person masterbates what do they think about, oh the pretty flowers, i dont think so. you either watch something or recreate a sexual experience in your mind. i suppose if flowers turned you on you would certainly be a twisted individual. only example where it could be lawful, lets say my wife is out of town 2 weeks, could it be lawful then? without getting graphic. the word logic is not translated in our english bibles, but is used many times in hebrew. in o.t. i have not read all they have to offer, and so will not comment til I do.
Just a little more research on this fellow "Darwin Fish" (can you really BELIEVE anyone would name their kid that???) who operates this very dangerous website...
First off, Fish quotes Spurgeon (and implies others) as saying the path to heaven may be wide enough to accomodate some differences (or something like that) ... Spurgeon and others may have said similar things but they were talking about those who trod a path with Jesus as their Savior. From what Fish says, he implies that just because you have claimed Jesus as your Savior, doesn't mean you're going to heaven. You have to accept everything that Fish says is Gospel in order to make it.
What Spurgeon and others were saying is, as we Christians find when we read the various translations of the Bible available to us, that there are Scriptures which aren't as clear in translation as they may have been in the original Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew. Many people love the truth but are unsure of the meanings of some Scriptures. For example: Jesus said in Matt. 28:19 that his followers were to go into the world "baptizing them in the name (one name) of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost." But in Acts 2:38, it says on the Day of Pentecost many were added to the church after being "baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Now which is right??? Were all those baptized on the Day of Pentecost deceived and going to Hell? Of course not! The Bible itself says they were "added to the Church" ... so who are we to say which is right? We need to allow the Scriptures to be what they are ... something written in a foreign language and translated as well as possible into English.
Fish also says it is the WORD of GOD that saves ... but the writers of God's word say the Holy Spirit is the convicter of sinful man and that no one can be saved unless "The Spirit draw him"! The Word (written) is important but the Lord Jesus Christ (also called the WORD) working with the Holy Spirit is what brings life!
In other places it is made very clear that Salvation is a simple thing ... Jesus said, "Even a fool shall not err therein." In Acts, the jailer is told "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved ... and your household." (Acts 16:31) How simple is that??? And later, Paul told the Romans, "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9 - NIV) Simplicity itself!
Fish has also either misquoted or carefully selected a translation that "proves" his theory when he quotes John 3:36 as saying, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life (There's that simplicity again!) but HE WHO DOES NOT OBEY THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE." This is supposedly from the New American Standard Version but I don't know that it really is because I haven't checked that particular TRANSLATION out. However, every translation of this verse that I have read (King James, New King James and New International) completes the second half of the verse by saying, "WHOEVER DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THE SON WILL NOT SEE LIFE ..."
As a writer, I tell you that second translation is more likely because one of the ways speakers and writers get their point across is to use pairs of opposites ... "he who believes ... he who does not believe," "Blessed are you ... but cursed are you," or outside the Bible "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times". It's a simple and common writer's tool.
I haven't even touched the surface of what this Fish fellow teaches (I never even got off the introductory page!) But I believe what I have reported to you should be enough to persuade you that if Fish is looking for the "one true church" he certainly hasn't found it in his own belief system!
Again I urge you ... RUN don't walk away from this website ... "God DID NOT GIVE US a spirit of fear but of love, power and a strong mind!" II Timothy 1:7
If a website (or a preacher or a church) fills you with FEAR that site, preacher or church is NOT OF GOD! Get away before your spirit is infected with its evil!
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
I commend you for seeking truth. According to Paul that makes you a "noble Berean"!
I haven't had a chance to go over all the beliefs and doctrines this particular teacher espouses ... but I have seen enough to know he has wandered into error in several important areas.
For example, he declares that the Holy Spirit "is seven" as revealed in Revelation where it speaks of the "seven spirits of God". He doesn't take into account that the HOLY SPIRIT is God himself, He is not a "spirit of God" (nor does he take into account that the word used for "spirit" can also be translated "breath".)
He declares that "signs and wonders" diminished and implies that they have ceased. Not true. He mentions that the Bible declares that Tongues will cease ... IT does ... just as it says Knowledge will cease but I don't believe either tongues or knowledge has ceased yet. That will happen at the end of the age and not before.
I'll post a more thorough analysis after I have had more time to study his beliefs ... until then I recommend that you RUN ... DON'T WALK away from this site.
"God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love and power and a STRONG MIND." Remember, if it make you fearful it is NOT of God!
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"I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people." Jude 3 Joyce
I have recently become caught up in a website with the following url:
http://www.atruechurch.info.
I am not sure if it is a legitimate organization, but I fear it may very well be just that. If it is, it is extremely scary because it reveals that almost all the churches are in error and on their way to Hell. I would encourage you all to visit the site with an open mind.
