Forgotten Word Ministries Blog

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

RE: should women preach if so where does it say in bible

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

If God can use Balaam's FEMALE donkey to preach a sermon ... I think He can use women!
Everyone always says God can't be put in a box but when it comes to their pet theories they all TRY! evileye hmm evileye blankstare doh cry bleh confused furious biggrin biggrin biggrin

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

LOL this is exatly how I see it.

bobw · administrator

I suppose there is much disagreement on this subject. I have read the other post but still remain convinced in my belief. The KJV says the following in John 20:17.17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her. My feeling on this is different than some I suppose. I feel that there is a vast difference between what Mary was doing and Pastor/Preaching.Mary certainly DID deliver a message from the Lord. But there is a fine line between delivering a message to alert the diciples about something and someone taking the reins of the Pastorate. Women were used by the Lord in many ways throughout the Bible but never were they Priest or Scribes, etc. At least to my knowledge. I honestly think this discrepancy between people on what they believe falls somewhere in the realm where we wish it to be one way when it isnt. In other words, It's kinda like what some men feel. They want something to be so badly that they refuse to believe the truth because it doesn't fit their own wants and wishes. To me it's like someone becoming a preacher. They become a preacher because of various reasons. Some because it's a good job. Some because of the pay and benefits and retirement. Some because they are just lazy and think this is the way to go. Some because their farther or grandfather was a preacher and SOME because God called them to the Ministry. To me, only those who God CALLED to the ministry are true preachers. The others are just holding down jobs. They may do some good but from experience and living for 55 years I see a lot of them failing in so many ways because God is not truely in their lives the way He would have been if HE had called them instead of them calling themselves.Rambling I know but this subject is so delicate that I fail to express waht my heart and mind feel for fear of insulting someone. It's kinda like what I always say....I didn't write the Book, I just try to follow it.
I have discussed this subject with a famous preachers wife one time (Frances Swaggart), and she was of the belief that she was not to be a preacher or pastor because the Bible taught her otherwise. She explained that her position in life was decided by God and that was more than sufficient with her. Other preachers wives I have talked to about this have said similar things and some have said different. The difference in the women I talked to about htis over the years was so evident. The ones who said their position in their life was God's will and they were content with that and they were very calm about it. The women who disagreed with that were very outspoken and very harsh to the point of almost being bitter in their language.
This only means that this is my belief. It CERTAINLY DOES NOT mean I feel that women are inferior to men at all! Just as I do not feel inferior to a famous Preacher or the President because what I am is because of God and that feels just great to me. They have their position in life and I have mine. That may not mean I do not think I could do it better sometimes, but it is not my place to do so as George W. would probably kick my bottom if showed up at the White House and tried to do so.

-- Edited by bobw at 12:20, 2008-02-01

-- Edited by bobw at 12:25, 2008-02-01

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

I think what Doc meant was that after His resurrection, Jesus showed Himself first to Mary Magdalene and told her to "go tell my disciples and Peter ..."
Like it or not, that is what the Scriptures say.

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

doc_harmony
What is that suppose to mean, I think jesus showed himseld to her first?

-- Edited by Chris at 23:26, 2008-01-31

Chris · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

I don't mind females preaching. Me personally I would never sit under a female Pastor unless God told me so.

kennyt · Active Member

I think its ok for a woman to speak in church because we have them as Sunday School teachers, singer etc I have heard women give tongues and interpertations in church but when it comes to being a Pastor I believe that is where the line is drawn but if my house was on fire and the only person there to warn me was a woman well warn me and I know of a few women who can out preach alot of men. If there is no man to step in the gap go Sister and obey God and not men. wink

Oh doc the name is WORDWORKER

-- Edited by kennyt at 17:24, 2008-01-27

doc_harmony · Active Member

I believe Paul had a thing with Mary M. as I think he was upset that Yeshua showed Himself to her first. (as woodworker stated) Remember, most were to become messianic Jews and came from a tradition of male Pharacies as Jews. Paul though was a converted Pagan. The "church" fathers also were in a time of supreme male dominance and set up the Catholic (right thinking) doctrines. Christ never was gender separatist. Quite the contrary as his meeting Mary shows. She at that moment called Him "Rabboni". The only other time this highest honor is reflected to Yeshua was by the blind man. You need to see the Greek for Rabbi /teacher translations. I love the ancient original Greek (and hebrew ) as it tells me the blind man "felt" whom was present.

Now in our time we have grown out of the thought that human brains and hearts (what the word is all about anyway) are gender specific, aren't we?

If we understand this concept we see that the devine nature attribute of love has a very strong female component along with, compassion, and other fruits of the Spirit. Think with your heart.
Blessings DOC..................

doc_harmony · Active Member

YES .
We are all human beings placed here by our Devine Creator. We are obligated to pray (praise) the L_rd and serve. As "called up ones" we all are to speak Ha Devarime ( The Word).
Those whom think from a gender perspective misunderstand the root meanings of the Greek and Hebrew words translated to " Church", which means in both languages an assemply of "called up ones".
See "Elain Pagels" books. Her peri-Christian history was ground breaking getting her nominated for a pulitzer prize. She has a lot of info on women and the changing climate arround Mashiac Christo Yeshua's (Messiah Christ Jesus) time.
Go tell it on the mountain woman ...and on a pulpit. Speak the truth and it will set you free.
Blessings DOC................

marlon8289 · Active Member

i agree women have a place to talk about and explain jesus christ to people but not in a pulpit god placed men above women not trying to sound piggish its biblical,,,, to place a women above men i beleive is against the word of god,,,,,,
god placed women here for man not vice versa i beleive women should teach children sunday school something like that I FIRMLY BELIEVE IF A WOMEN STANDS BEHIND A PULPIT AND PREACHES SHE WILL STAND JUDGMENT FROM ALMIGHTY GOD I BELIEVE THROUGH PRAYER GOD WOULD REVEAL THIS REVALATION TO MANY PEOPLE BUT THEY WOULD RATHER FUFILL THERE OWN WILL INSTAED OF GODS WILL THIS IS MY PERSONAL BELIEF THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS

frozenchoseninak · Active Member

Here's a Biblical example of a WOMAN preaching. Preaching means to proclaim. This woman "proclaimed" the news about Jesus. See John 4:
28 So the woman left her waterpot, and went into the city and said to the men,

29 "Come, see a man ^(AJ)who told me all the things that I have done; ^(AK)this is not the Christ, is it?"

30 They went out of the city, and were coming to Him.

It appears that the "WOMAN" mentioned above was "proclaiming" the way to Jesus. Isn't that what we as "believers" are to do also?

Also we see a "WOMAN" helping her husband in Acts 18:

24Now a Jew named ^(AZ)Apollos, an ^(BA)Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to ^(BB)Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.

25This man had been instructed in ^(BC)the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with ^(BD)the baptism of John;

26and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when ^(BE)Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him ^(BF)the way of God more accurately.

27And when he wanted to go across to ^(BG)Achaia, ^(BH)the brethren encouraged him and wrote to ^(BI)the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace,

28for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating ^(BJ)by the Scriptures that ^(BK)Jesus was the Christ.

Priscilla = "ancient"

1) a Christian woman, the wife of Aquila

as you can see, Aquila did NOT tell his wife she couldn't preach, or proclaim, or instruct in the ways of righteousness.

And as someone else mentioned, the issue in Corinth was the disturbances of the woman asking their husbands the meaning of what was being said at the wrong time(s). The culture back then was different than ours.

To be more up to date, as men, we will find that there are many woman who could teach us something whether it be in the Spiritual realm, or the business/ financial realms, or just life in general.

If we are so closed minded as men, and will not submit to the moving of the Holy Ghost on someone, i.e.: a woman who "prophesies"(Divinely inspired utterances), we place our selves in an area of blindness. One of the thing promised from the book of Joel 2

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

This passage was "preached" by Peter on the day of Pentecost.

What is a "daughter"? A female, that began as an infant and grew into a WOMAN!

bobw · administrator

Greetings,
Yes, Wordworker and I disagree on this one but I pray we disagree in Christian love (even if I think she is wrong and she thinks I am wrong) smile

The following information states my feelings on the subject. I hold that there are many positions where women can be of such great use in the Church, just not in positions of authority over men. Thank God, I didn't write the book, I am just following what it says. If I wrote it, things would really be a mess.

This response goes much deeper than the initial question. The answer may be found in Genesis, where Yahweh says to Eve that Adam was to rule over her (Genesis 3:17). Yahweh from the Beginning established that the man was to be the head of the relationship. Many people feel that this command no longer applies in such an advanced and modern world, however, Yahwehs commands do not change through time.

Regardless of time or culture, Yahwehs Word rules supreme for all those that will seek it with a pure and honest heart. Yahwehs regulations and standards for mankind do not change. His Word remains the same for all generations. Malachi says in Malachi 3:6 that Yahweh changes not. Therefore, we must understand that Yahwehs commands are perfect and do not change for any reason.

In 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Paul says that women are to remain silent within the assembly: "Women should remain silent in the assemblies. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the assembly" (NIV).

Paul says that women are not allowed to speak in the assembly. When a women has a question she is to ask her husband at home in private. In Pauls letter to young Timothy he again makes it a point to mention that women are to obey their husbands and learn in quietness. "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent" (1 Timothy 2:11-12, NIV). Scripturally, a woman must never place her authority over a mans.

In the following Old Testament passages we find that all priests were men: Exodus 28:1; Exodus 32:26-29; Leviticus 8:2; Numbers 8:16-26. Nowhere within the Old Testament do we find priestesses. In 1 Corinthians 12:29 the Apostle Paul lists the different offices within His body, and all are masculine positions: "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers?" (NIV). Nowhere did Paul or anyone else ordain a woman to official offices in the Body of Messiah.

The womens role may not be formally within the assembly, but the women also have responsibilities which greatly affects the assembly as a whole. In Titus Yahweh through His Apostle says that women are to be sober-minded, chaste, workers at home, kind, submissive to their husband. The mother also is responsible with the father to raise the children in Yahweh. She is to teach them how to love their fellow man, and Yahweh.

Any assembly or culture starts with the family, and the morals and ethics are built from there. If the family is strong the culture will be strong, if the family is weak the society will be weak. Women have a great role in accomplishing Yahwehs truth, and without women no assembly or society would survive.
-----------------------------------

May women be Bible teachers and preachers? Are women equally as important as men, or do the Scriptures demean women? Should men hold the roles of leadership in the church, such as preachers, elders, and deacons? Does the Bible teach women to be subject in submission to the authority of men? Did Paul hate women or teach they should be mistreated? Is the Bible teaching about women's role outdated and antiquated?

I. The Value of Women and Their Work.

A. Women's Work Is Equally as Important as Man's.

Women are just as important or valued as men. They are honored and rewarded for their work as highly as men are for their work.

Gal. 3:28; I Pet. 3:7; Prov. 31:10-31

B. God Values People for Their Service, not Their Authority.

Matt. 20:25-28

Note that this does not deny the existence of valid authority. Jesus used Himself as the example, and He possessed authority (Matt. 28:18; 7:29). The point is that possession of authority does not inherently make one great. People without authority can be just as great as those who have it. Cf. citizens to rulers, men to elders, etc.

However, the fact men and women are equally valued does not mean God expects them to do the same work.

C. In Particular, the Woman's Role as Homemaker Is of Great Value

God honors woman in this role, and she ought to be honored by men.

1 Timothy 5:14; Titus 2:5; Psalm 113:9; Proverbs 31:10-31; 7:11,12

C. Women Have a Definite Responsibility in teaching.

They may teach women or children.

Titus 2:3,4; Proverbs 31:1; 1:8; 2 Timothy 1:5

They may even impart truth to men in a limited capacity.

Acts 18:26; 2:17; 21:9; John 4:28-30,39,42

However, note that none of these passages place women as preaching God's word in the public worship assemblies of the whole church or in any capacity which puts them in authority over men.

II. Restrictions on Women in Authority and Teaching

A. Women Are Subject to Men

Many passages teach the subjection of women to men in general.

Genesis 2:18; 3:16; Ephesians 5:22-33; Colossians 3:18; I Corinthians 11:3; 14:34; I Timothy 2:12-14; 3:4,12; Titus 2:4,5; I Peter 3:1-7

B. Positions of Authority & Leadership in the Church Are Reserved for Men.

Apostles were all men - Acts 1:13.

Elders, who oversee the local church (Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 5:1-3), must be men - 1 Timothy 3:1,2; Titus 1:5,6.

C. Women Are Subject to Men in Spiritual Teaching.

Women are expressly forbidden to take a leading role over men in the church or in any circumstance of teaching God's word.

1 Timothy 2:11-14 - Women are subject to men in spiritual teaching situations.

V13,14 give two reasons for women's subjection to man.

V13 - First, man was formed before woman. This refers to the creation account of Gen. 2:18ff. See also 1 Cor. 11:3,8,9.

Woman was created from the beginning to be a helper or companion to man, not a leader or authority figure over him. Man was created with the position of leader and his nature suits that position.

V14 - Man has the leadership role because, though both Adam and Eve sinned, the woman was deceived where man was not. Both man and woman were punished, but God made the punishment fit the sin.

Eve tried to take the leadership role and made a decision to disobey God without consulting her husband. She allowed herself to be deceived and made a colossal blunder, so God required that she would always be subject to her husband (Gen. 3:16). Her punishment reminds her that she left her role of subjection. Man was punished just as severely, but in a different way.

1 Corinthians 14:34,35 - Women are to be silent in the assemblies of the church.

V34 says women must keep silence "in the churches." V35 says it is shameful for them to speak "in the church." The context defines "silence" to mean not speaking, not even to ask a question.

The context shows that "in the church" refers to the public worship assembly in which the church is called together to sing and pray (v15) and be edified (v26). The church is gathered together in congregation as a body. See v23,26 (cf. v4,5,12,19,28,33,34,35). Compare the similar usage in 1 Cor. 11:17-34 regarding the assemblies in which the Lord's supper was offered (cf. v17,18,20,33).

III. Answers To Objections

A. Was Phoebe a Preacher?

Romans 16:2 says Phoebe was a "minister" or "servant." How she served is not defined. There are many different ways people may serve or minister to others.

Cf. John 2:5.

No passage anywhere indicates that any women were appointed to any specific office of work in the church like elders and deacons. Appointment to office requires specific qualifications (Titus 1; 1 Tim. 3). None are ever given for women.

If Phoebe had preached in public church meetings, she would have violated express New Testament commands.

B. Was This Just Paul's Opinion or a Requirement of God?

Some people claim this was just Paul's personal opinion, not Divine regulation

1) It is based on the principle of subjection of women to men. This was a principle established by God and revealed through various inspired teachers, not just Paul. Gen. 2:18; 3:16; Eph. 5:22-33; Col. 3:18; I Cor. 11:3; Tit. 2:4,5; I Pet. 3:1-7; I Cor. 14:34.

2) 1 Cor. 14:34,35 says the same was also taught in the law (Gen. 2:18; 3:16). Hence, it was not just Paul's opinion nor a temporary or local custom but had been the rule even under the Old Testament.

3) 1 Cor. 14:37 expressly states that these teachings were "the commandment of the Lord." Paul was an inspired apostle (2 Cor. 11:5: 12:11,12; 1 Cor. 9:1-5; 15:4-8; Acts 9:15; 26:16). To reject this teaching is to reject the commands of God. See also 1 Thess. 2:13; 4:8; Eph. 3:3-5; Gal. 1:6-12; 1 Cor. 2:1-5,10-16; 2 Peter 3:15,16; Luke 10:16; John 16:13,14; Matt. 18:18;

4) Paul was not prejudiced against women. Much of the teaching about the value of women was done by Paul. See also Eph. 5:25-29,33; Galatians 3:28; Col. 3:19; Acts 16:14,15,40; Rom. 16:1-4,6.

C. Was This a Binding, Permanent Command or Just a Custom of That Day?

Some claim that the teaching about women's subjection was not intended to be permanent but was a local, temporary custom of that day.

1) It is based on the principle of subjection of women to men. This is a universal principle binding on all Christians in the gospel age, taught in other passages including Gen. 2:18; 3:16; Eph. 5:22-33; Col. 3:18; I Cor. 11:3; Tit. 2:4,5; I Pet. 3:1-7; I Cor. 14:34. Note that some of these are taught by inspired men other than Paul.

2) 1 Cor. 14:34,35 says the same was also taught in the law (Gen. 2:18; 3:16). Hence, it was not just a temporary or local custom but had been the rule even under the Old Testament.\

3) V33 says that the things Paul was teaching apply "in all the churches of the saints."

4) Again, 1 Cor. 14:37 expressly states that these teachings were "the commandment of the Lord." Hence, they were not just local, temporary customs. Paul was an inspired apostle. To reject this teaching is to reject the commands of God, not just temporary customs. See passages above.

We must not lightly set aside the teachings of God's word as non-binding customs. Unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, we must accept that which God's word teaches to be Divine command.

-- Edited by bobw at 23:13, 2008-01-21

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Bob and I disagree on this issue STRONGLY.
First off, where does it say "ONLY MEN" should preach? Isn't that where we should start?
Paul says he wants women to keep silent in the church ... and throughout his ministry he commends Lydia and other women who are leaders in the churches he has planted ... what no one seems to recognize is that in I Cor. 14 where he says women should keep silent he is speaking of order within the church.
The custom of separate seating for genders often cause women to speak aloud to their husbands asking them questions during the meetings (this is the Assembly of God argument anyway ... I wasn't there so I wouldn't know). This was to stop that (see how it says, "If they have any questions they should ask their husbands at home...") [Notice also, the word PREACH is NEVER used except in reference to Paul and the other original Apostles!]
Paul also says, "one will sing, another teach, another tell some special revelation..." (v. 26) and he never says "a BROTHER will teach ... a BROTHER will tell some special revelation ..." and in Galatians he says there is neither gentile nor jew, bond or free, male nor female ..."
Jesus used Mary Magdalene as the "first apostle" (the word apostle means 'sent one' and He sent Mary didn't He?) telling the disciples that He had risen.
Jesus will use any willing vessel.
I suggest it isn't the best idea for a woman to pastor because that is a highly stressful job and God is always about protecting women ... but if that is their choice ... just like with a lot of other things ... I don't think we can pass judgement against them but must leave them to God to judge.

And, Bob ... I still love ya ... yer still my brother in Christ ... I just wish you'd get right about this! heheheheheheh biggrin

-- Edited by wordworker at 22:31, 2008-01-21

-- Edited by wordworker at 22:32, 2008-01-21

marlon8289 · Active Member

i always beleived women shouldn't preach but they seem to think its ok i have never really paid much attention cause i would'nt sit under a women preacher could someone please tell me scriptures and why women are allowed to preach if they know its wrong ((((((((( if its wrong thank you confused