Forgotten Word Ministries Blog

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

RE: Mr. Wise : A Modern Day Pharisee? Matt. 12:36 You Judged UrSelf!

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Ill have to disagree with you on Jesus referring to not having an abode but seeking refuge from a constant throng of people. Here is why. The section of scripture where Jesus says: "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests" has to refer to Jesus having no abode. The analogy of: fox is to hole as bird is to nest as Son of man has no place to lay his head due to continually being mobbed does not fit. Foxes have holes, their home. Birds have nests, their home. The Son of man has no home(earthly), fits. His comparison was to show the scribe asking that it was not going to be a comfortable way of life he was asking to join. Since we know God is not a God of confusion it would have been misleading for Jesus to compare what certain animals have then switch his meaning in mid sentence.

"all the human stuff that you DON'T NEED TO DO IN HEAVEN" This statement of yours pricked my curiosity with some questions. If the temple as God gave plans for here were a shadow of the one in Heaven... We will have new bodies as Jesus has...We will sit at the marriage supper of the Lamb...We will cast our crowns at his feet...What else is a shadow here of the real in Heaven? This also leads me to ask: Why was Jesus so uninformed as to what life as a human involved? He has been with the Father from the beginning. Had he never observed humans? For me the amazement is that Jesus knew EXACTLY what he was getting into and STILL he gave up his place in Heaven to be the one sacrifice redeeming and reconciling us to God.

-- Edited by Sojourner at 12:30, 2007-12-14

-- Edited by Sojourner at 12:31, 2007-12-14

bobw · administrator

Biblical,
I for the life of me do not understand why you think I am lashing out at you. I merely was showing you where this website does ask for prayer and concern for those we speak of. It is of a mystery to me that you are being so narrow sighted that you cannot see that you are the one with the angry disposition. I am not angry with anyone except maybe the Devil for deceiving so many people but certainly not angry or jealous of any preachers. It is only because you disagree with this website that you have decided to take this position. That is fine just please do not take this as anger as it is not. It is simply dialog between a number of people who do not agree with each other.
As for my not being called by God to do what I do...I am confused as to how you would know that. You claim that these ministries I discuss are called of God and again somehow you know that. Where does your information come from? What happened all of a sudden that you can speak for God but no one else should do so? This is certainly not what is so.
You say thta God does not need me or anyone else to expose false teachings, etc. but I would beg to differ. How would you explain the following:
Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves. .
Romans 16: v 17-18
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned;
Ezekiel 33:6
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
Are we to just throw out the Scriptures we do not wish to agree with? I know within my mind and heart that the Holy Spirit through the direction of Jesus Christ has called me to do what I do. You certainly do not have to agree with that but should respect it or as Jesus also instructed us:
Romans 16: v 17-18
.. and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
This discussion blog was meant for discussion between people but not for angry words or deeds. I am asking ALL who post here to be respectful to everyone irregardless of what they may believe whether it be as we believe or different. I apologize if I have insulted you as that was not my intent. As stated, I love you through Christ and respect you though not agreeing with you in many regards. You are welcome to remain here to discuss anything you may agree with or disagree with and we respect your thoughts. God Bless.

DjBiblical · Active Member

Jesus was NOT talking about not have an ABODE to sleep because he was POOR or HOMELESS....He said that because of the WORK he had to do...that he did NOT have time to sleep..because of the MANY PEOPLE who needed so much help, healing and deliverance. He was constantly travelling...But you must understand Sojourner that JESUS was NEW with EVERYTHING in his day...NEVER had a MAN with such power, words, or effect come into the peoples lives. He didn't have a place to lie his head because he was ALWAYS MOBBED....That's why when he was telilng people that he healed, "Don't tell anyone who did this." BECAUSE he was HIDING....trying to get some rest.. ALWAYS drained. Man..JESUS stripped himself of his EMINENCE and put on the HUMAN, ALL HUMAN...needing rest..needing to use the bathroom..needing to bathe..all the human stuff that you DON'T NEED TO DO IN HEAVEN....He was actually TOO POPULAR...like a MOVIE STAR or ROCK STAR is today...this was JESUS....the people were like PAPARAZZI...he couldn't to go anywhere w/o being mobbed...That's why he retreated to the mountains...so much that even the disciples WHO where still trying to understand him, WHO IS THIS MAN that even.....That when they NEXT saw Jesus he was walking on the water and they thought it was a GHOST....That's why JESUS didn't have a place to lay his head....MOBBED, PAPARAZZI, CROWDS....

Use wisdom when reading scripture and ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding...

You are the FIRST one on these posts that speak with BALANCE...and I agree with alot that you say....(to be continued, I'm sure!)

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

My comments below are not from a defensive stand point but from contending for the faith as for this discussion. Any preconcieved defensive posture or tension is from the reader. Now is this a disclaimer or what?

Here is my response. I dont have a problem with what prosperity teachers teach per say. I do have a problem with those they lead astray into believing the gospel is for ones profit or blessings of richs in this life. Yes I do believe God can and does bless faithful servants but not by sowing a seed into a man oriented ministry. You ask that their fruit be looked at, what does a lost and dying world see when it looks at their fruit? Those being helped or a lavish life style? You say their expensive homes, cars and suits are equivalent to similar items in Jesus time, i.e. a colt was the same as a MB today. Yet Jesus himself said in Matthew 8:18-20 "And when Jesus saw great multitudes about Him, He gave a command to depart to the other side. Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go. And Jesus said to him, Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Either Jesus is lying, misleading or did not want the man in his ministry. It actually was discipleship not a ministry as we think of ministry today. God blesses what is done in secret. Take that deeper and it is not what is done in secret but the intent of the heart of that which is done in secret that God blesses. Many prosperity adherents silently, some not so silently, use themselves as examples, i.e. "look how God has blessed me, sow your seed into this ministry and watch God multiply it." "If you will send in your seed faith offering of $100 God will return it a hundredfold." The hundredfold verse actually reads: Matthew 19:29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My names sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life." Earlier in Matthew Jesus also used the hundredfold term but it referred to good soil for the seed of the Word. I will state there is no pastor-teacher in this country who has left all to become a disciple of Jesus let alone the leader of a ministry. Without leaving all, a prerequisite, there can be no hundredfold blessing. I will heavily contend with you, and challenge you to(provided you do) instead of sending in your monthly $25 seed faith offering to the ministry of your choice you locate an elderly saint in your area and sow your seed there, in secret. Ministries who advertise, "For a donation of $25 Ill have my staff send you my teaching series on..." Or, "my book, a $30 value will be sent to you free of charge for every $20 donation" are nothing more than present day money changers and sellers of doves: is this not the same as Jesus found in the temple and cleared out? In this day and time there is a huge prostitution of Gods Word. On top of this, being that donations to ministries, which are tax exempt, are tax deductible, of which those donating receive a receipt for and use to lower personal income tax rate, isn't this reduction of taxable income a type of reward? So if you sow your seed into a ministry, but take the tax deduction, dont you already have your reward? Not only this, but Jesus had no problem paying taxes, rendering to Czar what was Czars, yet ministries dont have to? Are they better than Christ? Not that I am a proponent of taking away their tax exempt status but as a discussion point.

Pray for those so blinded who teach this stuff? Yes I do, that God will remove the scales from their eyes and begin to teach the truth of the gospel. Souls are perishing for a lack of knowledge who need the truth; it should not be those behind a podium causing it. I have no problem with those in ministry being blessed, at question is the doctrine they teach to get there.

Matthew 7:13 & 14 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

-- Edited by Sojourner at 10:13, 2007-12-14

DjBiblical · Active Member

Critical people rarely see the context that they comment.

I never said YOUR MINISTRY never prays. My comment was to the individual's who in these past posts NEVER made a statement when ADDRESSING ME concering this topic.

See once again in a DEFENSIVE mode, but not in a loving mode. You state to, "...keep it in a friendly manner." Have you noticed that I have been demeaned by being called (UN)biblical
in a post from one of your members. You are NOT CALLED by God to expose false teachings. God doesn't need YOU to do that. He is FINE all by himself. SEE the NEWS that has exposed many ministers who have taken advantage of others. They have either been disgraced publically, or KILLED as they were caught in their sin that found them out! As for discussing your accusations with your accused, I said before, WHY NOT HAVE THE IRS investigate them or otherwise. AND if YOU are called to expose. Then EXPOSE, but why bring others into your mire who are NO LESS SPIRITUAL to handle such things. Do you bring a child to hunt lions and tigers in the wild? Do you bring little children to DRUG and PROSTITUTE infested neighborhoods to show them the sin you want them to AVOID when they grow older? So why do you allow other hurt, insecure, and immature people to come onto this site to VOMIT the same refuse you say you are called to expose? Are you a CARRIER who wishes to INFECT others so they can feel your emotional disdain?

Then when I said, I RESPECT YOUR CONCERNS, once again YOU LASH OUT, instead of acknowleding my commendation! It goes to show again..you are an angry minister who uses the BIBLE or a MINISTRY or a CALLING to do the same as TERRIORIST do, destroy others with their BELIEFS all in the name of GOD. Your actions are No worse than someone bombing an abortion clinic, or lashing out at homosexuals in the pulpit. No love...No love...if you say you have love....It's hidden and locked...You have proven nothing by showing me a report of something you did in the past..."Uhhh Pray for them..." but BASH THEM. ONLINE, through insensitive, immature, and ignorant so-called Christians....

I do pray for you....because you are LYING on GOD now ...saying God "CALLED YOU to expose these men.." I pray that you understand the CONSEQUENCES of YOUR ACTIONS" and hope that you REPENT for CAUSING OTHERS to fall..."IT IS BETTER THAT A MILLSTONE be placed on their(your) next and thrown into the deepest part of the sea than to TOUCH ONE OF THESE little ones!" How deep will you go until you have truly ANGERED the MERCY of GOD by lying on Him. Again, WHO REALLY IS THE FALSE PROPHET?

bobw · administrator

Biblical
You mention that nowhere do we say we love them or to pray for them. The 1st paragraph on the homepage begs to differ.
Welcome to Forgotten Word Ministries internet website. First and foremost we are here to promote the true Word of God through His Holy Scriptures. We DO NOT hate any of the people we have listed on our site, in fact we love them all. Our intention is to show you how some preachers are using the Word of God for personal gain or are just plain misled themselves thereby misleading others who follow them and their teachings. Below this paragraph you will see a link for scriptures concerning false preachers/teachings. We suggest you begin there so as to understand what the Lord Himself had to say about such things. We do everything we can to discuss these matters with those involved but the majority will not discuss anything with us or with very few others. We do pray that these persons who are either purposely misleading for personal gain or are misled themselves will see the Lord's Word for what it is not what they wish it to be. God Bless You, Robert E. Wise
This is exactly how I feel. We do love these people and we do pray and ask others to pray for them. Here is an example of what is on the end of a Joel Osteen article on our site: Joel Osteen is making major headways in the church community but the headway isn't the right way. Pray for Mr. Osteen and his ministry and for the folks that attend his church and follow him. (Emphasis mine) In His Service,Bob WiseBiblical, you are so quick to accuse and to tell others to read first and learn the truth before accusing but you are doing the very same thing here on this blog. One thing you should be able to notice quite clearly is that I am steadfast in my convictions and do not bounce around saying one thing and doing another. I am called by God to expose false teachings in the Church and that is what I am trying to accomplish. You may not agree and that is your right to do so but please do not be so nasty in your comments about me or those who visit here. That is unbecoming of you. Like those I write about, I love you also but just do not agree with your assessment of those ministries not me and my website. That, my friend is my perogative just as it is yours to disagree with me and what I do. Please continue to discuss but keep it in a more friendly manner. As for some folks thinking I and others do not discuss this first with those accused, that is not true. We try to have dialog with all those we discuss but the majority of the time they will not discuss anything at all or have a employee call or email us back and tell us that they have nothing to say. I know that if Jesse Duplantis or any other person ask me to talk to them about what I do on this Ministry website, I would accomodate them as that is the just and right thing to do as instructed by the Lord. As before, God Bless you.

DjBiblical · Active Member

Also, I respect your concerns about just appropriation of finances in the church. I love all of you and, will continue to pray that your heart in this matter be one of compassion in your confrontation of what you see as "not of God."
The world is full of "talk shows" and "opinionated producing drama" that never truly bring a solution to all they claim is wrong, insensitive, and criminal behavior. It is easy to point the finger and to hate this or dislike that. The world does that...But we, the Children of God are to be "In the world but Not of the world." How are we different than the world when we are acting just like them. Full of debate, mockery, and damnation.....but NO solution through love to guide and direct others to find balance in their views and in their resolve!

May the God of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the Nazerene,through the Holy Ghost be with you as you contemplate your rebuttal or comment!
Shalom!

DjBiblical · Active Member

"Hired" is not a good term to use. It wasn't because they had money..but the status of their respectability. Fishermen were not considered "Civilized," which you can acertain with the conduct of Peter from time to time. They also were NOT "learned" or educated men. The Tax collectors (Matthew) were probably after the politicians the most hated of all men. That's why Jesus principally went to Zacheas' home. Jesus knew the hearts of men, unlike many of the people on this site claiming to "hear" or "are close" to God. What a laugh that is. Jesus showed love. He didn't call the Pharisees "FALSE PROPHETS" but rather that they were "hypocrites" boasting about all they knew about the law but not showing/displaying what they claimed to know the Word called us to be and possess, "love, mercy, and (rightious) justice (judgment)" This is NOT what you display or any of you for that matter. Such judgement and sarcasm and demeaning of the people who follow the Same JESUS that you claim you serve. They have NEVER called you or Mr. Wise or any other minister OUT OF THEIR Character or name. But you who are WITHOUT sin, cast stones at another without a true repentant heart, examining your own weakness.

You keep attacking and attacking...just like the Pharisees did Jesus, as you are the ONES WHO KNOW GOD'S HEART and MIND on the matter on "Things that are DECENT and ORDERLY and from the BIBLE," yet you have NEVER ONCE SAID in all your comments that you Love them.."Love your enemies, do good to them that despitefully misuse you (uhhh the money), ....." You have NEVER said that you will "pray for them..." So you are not different than the Pharisees who killed the prophets and nailed Jesus to the cross for his SAID, TRANGRESSIONS AGAINST the WILL and LAW of GOD!

Just look at yourselves...with all your pride and arrogance, self-righteous, haughty ways, before the God of love who COMMANDS you to, "Love your neighbor as yourself..." You speak of what is RIGHT and JUST and WRONG and WICKED in the EYES of God, but NEVER have you said offered any prayer for the ones who you say are "In ERROR".....So again who truly is the Child of God..or not?

I pray for your souls and for your eyes to be opened to God's love for another..and that you stop allowing the enemies of God to use you to profane the name of Love who is GOD!

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

"I personally have had visitations/encounters with The Master Jesus. Jesus came to me 2 times in a visitation."

You had me at least reading your post until that line dude. As for me mocking you, my last line was sarcastic in intent, that I'll admit and apologize for, but as for the questions concerning why the disciples did not use the wealth of Jesus' ministry, you are the one who opened that can of worms with your statements of: "JESUS HAD A HUGE MINISTRY..and was VERY RICH.....Study JESUS' NET WORTH..and see why he had to employ who he did. Why would a THIEF want to be a part of a ministry who HAD NO money... What happened to ALL THAT GOLD that Jesus recieved at his birth? Didn't you know that an UNRIDDEN donkey was the Mercedez Benz of Jesus day?"

If that was the case I do have to question the validity of why Jesus would make the statement of having no place to lay his head. His wealth was either well consealed from all, except for the thieves he hired, or he had a place and lied in order to impress. In either case it reduces, or at least puts into question his motives for embarking into ministry.

As for the thieves Jesus hired I don't mind them being called thieves but I do have a question or two of the hiring part. If they were simply hired for ministry support why does not scripture say so? Jesus himself used parables concerning the hiring of people to work in vineyards, those given talents to invest and work with for gain or profit for their master (boss), so why would he not state the same when "hiring" his staff? I thought those men chosen to become his disciples did so because of Jesus calling them and in their spirit they knew something was different about this man. During their spiritual maturing they began to realize he was not just a man. This is what I have believed for most of my life and to now find out they were hired not chosen means the Word is deceptive in its teachings.

-- Edited by Sojourner at 05:58, 2007-12-14

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

JAK it's obvious you don't like this site.
We put down your favorite preachers and tell people they are false prophets.
It's also obvious that there is no way this side of giving each one of us a thorough brainwashing that you are going to change any of our minds about what we believe.
So the real question here is ... WHY DO YOU KEEP ON POSTING?
If we (and this site) are so evil I should think you would want to do what Jesus instructed his disciples do when they weren't received well in any town ... shake the dust from your feet, state that It will be better for Sodom and Gomorrah at the judgment than for this site (town) and teave?
Jesus clearly stated that we shouldn't waste our time and energy talking to someone who simply liked to argue (casting pearls before swine, it's called).
So ... I'm done.
No more pearls for you from me.

DjBiblical · Active Member

Mockery will get you no where...since you really don't know biblical histsory or history at all. When the Disciples were sent out by Jesus, They were LEARNING THE WORD OF FAITH doctrine. THe Just shall live by Faith. Jesus was the example of leaving all for HIM...He choose BUSINESS MEN who in their OWN RIGHT were wealthy...Who depended on THEIR WEALTH...switch that around and now they live by faith because of what they were USED TO having. PLUS, mr MOCKERY, They were not FILLED with the HOLY GHOST yet, so they were USED TO DEPENDING on their fishing business, their tax collecting, etc. They had to UNLEARN JUDIASM which is a WORKS religion and LEARN a BRAND NEW doctrine which was to LIVE by FAITH and the GRACE given by God only. And FFWD to now...The Just STILL LIVE by Faith, however, it's different because MOST OF THE CHURCH.....(DUH..NOT THE JEWS) are poor, think poor, live poor...INSTITUTED by Pope Leo the 1st of ROME..who took so much from the PEOPLE through the Indulgences that when MARTIN LUTHER started the reformation the people were NOW in a MIXED between two religions. One where the renaissance/CATHOLIC church depended on MONEY and the Reformation depended on STRICTLY FAITH..but because of PERVERSION in the DOGMA of the Catholic church...EVERYTHING got botched up and NOW centuries later you got a bunch of POOR CHRISTIANS who don't know WHAT to believe.

In the END TIMES...God is giving back the MONEY to the CHURCH...so that we can minister his enditme msg...WE had the Faith movement, the Holy SPirit Movement (Azuza Revival) then the HEALING Movement, and Now back to the WORD OF FAITH Movement, HOWEVER WITH all THE THINGS PUT together at once...Faith, Holy Spirit Baptism, and Healing. So that the Church of Jesus Christ will shine forth with BRILLANCE over all enemies of God and live in HEALTH, WEALTH, and POWER before the 2nd Coming of Christ...

I am NOT a WORD OF FAITH DOCTRINE man, I am a WORD OF GOD by FAITH, POWER and HEALING (FINANCES, RELATIONSHIPS, and HUMAN TRINITY ~Spirit, Soul, & Body) Man of God. I believe in TOTAL Restoration and manifestation of the LIVING, Life GIVING God!....Tha's me as an end-time minister.... I don't knock no one else's belief..Cuz what I got it's got FRUIT and MANIFESATION.

I mean...look at all the denominations (I call this "demonsnations" or demons in the nations) in this earth that started with the Divide of the Renaisssance and the Reformation..See what the devil has done....HE used the ONE THING that JESUS taught that STILL CHRISTIANS world wide don't CATCH...."A house divided by itself can't stand..." and "How can two walk together except they be in agreement?"

Remember when you first started reading my post...I said...I was a HEAVY PRACTIONER of witchcraft, studying the satanic bible, spells, incantations, and demon hiarchy, UNTIL JESUS came into my life.

I personally have had visitations/encounters with The Master Jesus. Jesus came to me 2 times in a visitation. I don't care WHAT Mr. Wise says...It happend to me! That's all that matters..YOU know it, when something has happend and no one believes it...so what! It doesn't chang the truth, no matter WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE you! I know it!.. I felt the presence of God....It is stronger than any thing I have EVER experienced in my life. My flesh was in, man...I still can't describe it...just shaking and too powerful..all I could say was, "Oh, God...Oh God" This was in 2001. I actually saw in a vision my FUTURE Pastor's before I ever met them 3 years earlier. TRIPPED me OUT, bro....!

Any way... I don't go around preaching my own thing...I am called and appointed....I never broadcast to others the faults or what I THINK to be
another man's way to minister..I LEAVE THAT to GOD...

I have seen the falls of men way before they happened....I wished that they would not fall..but I never bashed them after they fell..I hurt for them...cuz Brother, that could be YOU..or your pastor....That doesn't feel good to see a person in a "SEE, I TOLD YOU THEY WERE CROOKED...." exposure.

It's not to broadcast, it's to Pray and intercede..because what happens to ALL THOSE SOULS....If they leave the church and go back into the world and die with all that UNFORGIVNESS, BITTERNESS, RESENTMENT, and don't deal with it...Man...yes.. the blood will be on the MINISTER'S hand who messed them up..but TWO WRONGS DON"T MAKE A RIGHT....remember.. Chocolate stains and mud stains on a White robe are STILL stains... Shalom!

DjBiblical · Active Member

No! I do NOT believe and I KNOW by the word (1 TIM 3:16) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." So just like the Word of prophecy, (2 Peter 1:21) "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost," came by revealtion of the Spirit. So should all sermons and the delivery of the Word. I don't like when certain ministers (I won't name names) read their entire sermon, like the President giving the "State of the Union"address.

However, it's good to jot down the notes that the SPirit of God gives to you to make points on this and that....But like I have always said...even in the delivery of the word...when it's annointed it will produce FRUIT. People coming up for SALVATION or PRAYER is NOT fruit...It's what happens AFTER the person get's prayed for by the Man of God or the Salvation Experience, that counts. The Follow up and the dicipleship. How is that person after 5 years, 10 years, 20 years....Because you shall know the tree by the fruit the people eat. Every tree has SOME KIND of FRUIT, but does the fruit have worms in the fruit, bugs, looking good on the outside, but mealy and dry in the inside (I'm an extreme fruit lover, so REALLY EXAMINE the fruit before I purchase).

So, NO, I don't think a person should preach their own thang. BUT also, I don't think ANY PERSON HAS THE right to judge the content...JUST THE FRUIT. Because the PHARISEES didn't APPROVE of Jesus content. How many times did they try to stone him for his ;I'M GO; doctrine, or His turning over the tables manifestation, etc.

So no and no! There's your answer!

The Saint · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

DJ Biblical- Though I don't follow the teaching that God want us all rich and that we can "name it and claim it," I disagree with Bob on some of his attitudes towards ministers with money. My problem with most Word of Faith ministers is the erroneous doctrine they preach, not the homes they live in or cars they drive. You see, to me, if you can live lavishly on 10% of your income and give 90% to ministry, who is anyone to judge that? And how are we to know how much any given believer gives away if they do it in private as instructed by Scripture? I firmly believe that God will judge our giving or lack of it and we should not run around condemning others for it. HOWEVER, you still have not answered my first question to you: Is it your assertion that anyone who claims to be of God can preach and teach anything they wish without any consequence or criticism?

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

JAK, it very obvious you firmly believe in word faith and that is your choice. Wonder why the Apostles didn't instruct churches being planted how to take advantage and prosper as is done today? Wonder who got all of that wealth Yeshua left behind? If so much wealth was in Yeshuas' ministry why did he send his disciples out instructing them to take no provisions? Maybe he wanted to keep his wealth for himself since it was on account of his works that it was gained. With all of that wealth sitting around, had I been Paul, I would have bribed the jailer to let me out or the guard who was to lash me. Those guys must have been stupid to not have used what they had at their disposal. What kooks!

DjBiblical · Active Member

Actually, I get your point. Your point is towards someone who doesn't DO IT LIKE YOU? Who made you the JUDGE over HOW a person should do what THEY FEEL and have SPOKEN that GOD has told them to use the money given to them. Jesse, is the least that will use money's needlessly. His many investments in biznis take care of that. What YOU don't understand and don't get is this (since I failed to mention the MEAT of why this is done) is this:

Everything in the earth realm is by a SEED. (Gen 8:22) While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

How do people of God get harvest, they plant seed. Their finances are two fold, (1) to Get the gospel preached through their offerings (which is also how man robs God; so how do you feel about tithing..also) and (2) to get them to plant seed so GOD can bring to them a harvest. You plant lemon seeds you get, lemons. You plant apple seeds, you get apples, and so forth. You plant love seed, you get love. You pray for the sick (planting healing seed) you get, wellness (healing). ...and YOU PLANT MONEY seed, you get..money!

The principles of God are just that, the principles. Therefore whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap. I am glad that you are "basically' DEBT free. why???? Cuz you PLANTED SEED my brother. But how many of your congregation to you teach SEED TIME principles..other than BASHING....Jesse TEACHES what he PREACHES..and WALK what he WORDS. But to DISAGREE because he DOES it different than you...is WRONG! PETER, have the vision about eating "forbidden" meats, though it was about preaching the Gospel to Cornelius of the Italian Band...look what happend.. THE FRUIT of it all is that Cornelius and his whole house got saved...NOW THE JEWS didn't like that....thinking tht Circumcision was just for the Jews...but it wasn't about PHYSICAL circumcision, but the circumcising the foreskins of their hearts. It was agreeable to the Jews..but was GOD WRONG because PETER DID it different..or that PAUL did it different....(Phil 1:15-18) Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."

So I ask you...what say you now. You have a different way of serving God, and it's effective. He has another way of God, and it's effective. You are both right in how you do it though the methods don't agree. However, God is still glorified because THE FRUIT is evident. BUT STILL, look at all the people who are hurting and come damaged because of this PROSPERITY thing. Can you say the people are HEALED and DELIVERED from ANGER, RESENTMENT, BITTERNESS, ENVY, etc and then GO ON to not only FORGIVE but working to FORGET the wrong.....How have you taught them to RIGHT the WRONG? If then you do that with this site, God is well pleased....but if not, YOU MY BROTHER, fall under the law...Galatians, Who is led of the Spirit is NOT under the law. So if you Judge, you will be judged....according to I COR:13: 1-5 (Especially vs 3).

Let it go..and love your brother..whom you don't agree with but MUST love and pray for!

You are only teaching others who are NOT AT YOUR LEVEL, mentally, emotionally, and SPIRITUALLY (though many surely think so), to HATE and harbor the same things I have asked if you are helping people to get delivered from (hate, rejection, resentment, etc) but are not, to rather choose to BASH the people who do the same as you (save souls), but underdifferent methods...or should I say...DENOMINATIONALIZM! When there is ONE Christ Jesus the Nazarene, One Lord of Hosts, One Faith in God, and one Baptism in the Holy Ghost! Shalom!

bobw · administrator

Biblical,
You still do not get it do you? It is not what Jesse and others are doing that is good, it is about what they are ALSO doing that they should not be doing! They do many wonderful things for people all over the world including feeding them and building homes, wells, etc. BUT, in doing so they themselves are getting RICH as a side effect! Do you not understand that that is the problem in a NUT SHELL. Accepting peoples money to do work for the Lord is commendable but spending it on million plus dollar homes, cars, suits, etc is not acceptable.
For your understanding of me....I own my home outright...NO MORTGAGE..Praise the Lord. I own my cars outright....NO LOANS on them. I DO NOT take a salary of ANY KIND from this Ministry. All the monies I receive from donations goes for purchasing Bibles and postage to send the Bibles out to people all over the world. The cost of the website and it's upkeep, I pay out of my job income. I do not use credit cards, if I cannot pay for it, I do not get it. We get thousands of request for Bibles and it is expensive so I do ask for a donation, BUT I get very little as I do not offer anything in return for those donation EXCEPT GOD'S REWARD THAT ONLY HE WILL GIVE WHEN APPROPRIATE TIMES DICTATES. HE makes those decisions on how to bless the givers. If I offered riches, fancy plaques, statues, etc., for the donations, I would probable receive more, but I want the donations to come from the heart not the expectations of receiving something for giving something. Make sense? Does this make me better than anyone else? NO WAY....just a better steward of the money God has allowed me to gather for HIS purpose. My home, cars, etc., purchases came from my regular job, not this Ministry. You did not know this so I understand your thinking I was one of those who had nothing and was jealous....Far be that from the truth. I have more than I need that is why I can help others when they are in need. We might as well agree to disagree on this subject but the dialog is nice so have it as long as you wish as long as we all keep it from becoming a fight and using language that would be unbecoming of a Christian.
Again, God Bless you.
Rev. Wise

-- Edited by bobw at 14:43, 2007-12-13

-- Edited by bobw at 14:44, 2007-12-13

-- Edited by bobw at 14:45, 2007-12-13

DjBiblical · Active Member

You didn't burst my bubble....Because you didnt' answer the question?

What families did he help build an entire community in the Katrina Aftermath.

What nations has he set up offices to disciple MILLIONS of converts won to Jesus and to help their NATION (as the Presidents of these MUSLIM countires will not air on tv because of the drama that POLITICS and RELIGION bring against their country) rid themselves of demons and at that POVERTY?

If you can't take the heat, please stay out of the Kitchen. The case isn't about who does what..but LIKE YOU SAID....bashing another brother in Christ.

He speaks of the "..someting like" price of a private Jet to travel to minister.

Do you know the reason for this private Jet. All you "HEAR" is that it's for private use.   Uhhh do you USE YOUR CAR just to go to church.

Remember the Parable about the the man who was hiring people to work in his vineyard until the 9th hour and that at the end of the day, everyone got paid
the same from the 1st to the last hour? Then the guy who worked at the 1st got upset that the one who worked just 1 hour got paid for 8 hours just like him? Remember what the Husbandman said, "Are you upset with me cuz I am good?" Is it not MINES to give to whom I want?

Jesse did NOt SECRETLY buy a plane with peoples finances...HE OPENLY asked people to sow seed for this plane. THEY SENT THE MONEY, knowing what he was going to do with this plane. So whether it cost 18,000 dollars of $18 million..If he goes to Russia or to Aspen..It's his to do what he wants. Isn't a MAN OF GOD entitled to a VACATION????....And if he wants to go to FRANCE
for his VACATION, couldn't he USE the PLANE he bought...Are you angry because he is GOOD? The fruit. Has your MAN OF GOD, even talked with Jesse to ask him..."YOU who are SPIRITUAL, entreat (CONFRONT) such a one in the spirit of meekness...?" NO....he hasn't....so it's just an angry man bashing someone, with insuations without merit or legal binding fact... WHY HASN'T THE IRS caught him.....where are the LEGAL ramifications against this man of God...

NO, I don't question the Integrity of Mr. Wise's ministry of "helps" ..but I do seriously question the nature of THIS MINISTRY....to hurt another man of God's reputation because he doesn't agree with the WAY a person is using the MONEY that GOD told him to do...

Don't tell me that all the money, if any, that goes into HIS MINISTRY is just for MINISTRY....that he doesn't use money for gas, food, and other things HE THINKS his ministry needs...cuz you know his WIFE, if any, is his ministry, or is she?

Whatever the case..you DIDN'T burst my bubble...I don't have a problem with ANY MINISTER having money..but DON"T speak about your OPINION, you must have PROOF..or in the COURT OF LAW that is called, DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER..And THAT'S why I stated his (JESSE's) Credit History, and Business integrity....and nothing to do with consequences? Yes. there are ALWAYS CONSEQUENCES....and there have been NO CONSEQUENCES of manifestation in Jesse Duplantis in all his years of ministry and I have been knowing him for over 28 years (personally and ministerially)...I didn't like Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Robert Tilton, and others...I knew their tract record and their FRUIT... I have followed ministries for years..as I too have been BURNED by ministries who misused finances where I was the the associate minister or armor bearer, or whatever and they messed with the money....ESPECIALLY MINES...in excess of over $20K plus...so DON"T TELL ME that I am being BIAS for MONEY MINISTERS..cuz that is NOT the case..

Jesse is CLEAN and SPOTLESS...no matter what you think....IRS, BBB, FTC...all CLEAR him of ANY mismanagement or FRAUD!....end! God bless and PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH...before you get JUDGED....you already may be in the middle of judgement..I dunno..I hope not..I don't want anyone to experience the things I have seen of people who judged me the wrong way....even death!   God knows..and he is witness to THIS POST! Shalom!

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Bob ... you might not want to read this ... it'll embarrass you.
JAK ... I don't want to burst your bubble ... (okay I told a whopper there ... I DO want to burst it so you can see the truth)... But Bob Wise is one of the most giving, generous and caring Christians I've ever met.
We are personal friends and, when I needed help, he was there to help me just as Christian brothers are supposed to be. He did more to support me morally, financially and spiritually than ANY of those televangelists when I contacted them for help!
I have yet to hear of a televangelist sending financial support to ANY individual ... But I know Bob uses his money (over and above what he needs to support his family in modest comfort) to help those he knows are in need.
Doesn't mean he's a "pushover" ... he wisely limits his assistance to those he knows are Christians in need.
He's a fine steward of God's blessings ... and does more for God's kingdom than all those televangelists combined!

DjBiblical · Active Member

And I am NOT talking about a donation...of $100 or even $5,000 dollars..I mean BUYING A NEW HOUSE...PERIOD...Yhall let BRAD PITT do what CHRISTIANS SHOULD BE DOING...A heathen who believes in WITCHCRAFT and SOCERY is taking care of the Business YOU SHOULD BE TAKING CARE of instead of Arguing with me about the will of God for CHristians to have money...when you can't even PAY your own bills month to month...or JUST BUY YOUR HOUSE CASH! And that with NO MONTHLY NOTE!

DjBiblical · Active Member

What???? Where in the Bible, Torah, or Talmud that a minister has to GIVE an OATH to live a certain MONETARY way? If it's not biblical it is not BIBLE! Such rubbish is the reason why people don't want to be Christians. STUDY, and DO RESEARCH....Because I have...I am not giving my OPINION like you do...I KNOW what I'm talking about. You only READ REPORTS..but are NOT BEHIND the scenes...I have and I do know...The UNGODLY press is what you listen to...DEVILS who know that it IS God's will and HIS ORDER from HEAVEN that HIS CHILDREN represent HEAVEN correctly...JUST READ ON!

Uhhh just so you can know...Jesse has offices in Australia, London, Africa and Hawaii....He does not just travel by himself. He has a staff of people. He doesn't NEED to disclose these details to you, but I AM. Also. Why WOULDN'T GOD want his children to have these MATERIAL THINGS??? Let's describe GOD'S LAVISH LIVING in HEAVEN...Uhhh (1) His front gate is mad of SOLID pearl. WHAT???? SOLID Pearl for a front gate....(2) Streets of GOLD...not gold leaf...gold plated or "Santo" Gold. but SOLID Gold. (3) A House FILLED with MANSIONS...now tell me HOW BIG does a house have to be to have MANSIONS all over the property.

Do you PEOPLE really know about how a MONARCHY is run? I guess not! So let me help you. PSALM 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men. MATT 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven. "

UNDERSTAND THIS: JESUS (GOD) is the KING of KINGS. He is the King of Heaven and of Earth. But because of jurisdiction he rules from HEAVEN....While WE the CHILDREN of God or KINGS and PRIESTS of the Most Hig God, Rule From Earth. Jesus came back to give us the DOMINION on Earth vacated by ADAM. That's why he is the 2nd Adam. If you study Pre-Adamic History, you will understand that before Lucifer was cast out of heaven, earth was inhabited by beings before Adam. Lucifer, now thrust out, like lightning from heaven, into the earth realm, becoming satan, the deciver, the accuser, the destroyer, the fallen star was cast out. STUDY the science of the earth and how OLD scientists say things (fossils) are. Do you think that earth was uninhabited and just DARK when GOD IS LIGHT??? C'mon do your research, listen to your spirit and USE common BIBLICAL sense. Anyway...God created MAN in HIS image to rule, reign and roam the earth. Not just live in Paradise. However, because Satan was still on the earth..tho now it had light. The earth had light
tho paradise was the ONLY place that was PROSPERING.

Adam lost his PARADISE and was thrust out into the UNIHABITED earth realm where everything was destroyed and without any work done to it...because of the FALL, what was promising was now TOTALLY ruins.

Fast fwd: Jesus has redeemed us from the curse put on man, but NOT the EARTH.
Now that we have been given BACK the earth...We are still back to the orginal ORDER from the KING OF HEAVEN..."To replenish, to subdue and to KEEP the earth." AS Kings of the Earth realm we are responsible to do just what the King of Heaven said to do. You see,
a 2 Kings by LAW (Rom 13:1-2) can not rule at the same time the same domain. No two kings rule Spain, or no two kings rule Jordan. You don't have 2 Queens ruling England.
However, was as God's Children are to RULE the EARTH. The Earth belongs to the Lord God but the RULERSHIP he has given to US.

NOW what king do you know that is POOR.. NONE! What about the Princes, the Princesses, or the Dukes? NONE! You don't see them poor, and their kids poor. They are RICH and WEALTHY. With royal living, nice MANSIONS, CARS, etc..with a ROYAL GUARD and are Ambassadors all over the earth, representing their nation.

We are the KIngs and Priests of God Most High, Sons and daughters of the King. We have ACCESS to riches and wealth and NOT to POVERTY or JUST the NORM. We currently are AMBASSADORS for CHRIST to the EARTH realm, our MANSION is in Heaven, because Heaven is our Home. Do you see where the U.S. Embassy in other countries are? Just because the COUNTRY is poor...is the EMBASSY shabby, rundown, or do the AMBASSADORS just live in a REGULAR house like others? NO they are distinguished and dignified, with the best of the best, why? Because their NATION sees to it. OUR NATION is in HEAVEN...but we have ACCESS to the RICHES and WEALTH of OUR NATION...

Do your study..and stop arguing the case to be poor...and without money.. Who's gonna want to listen to a BROKE CHRISTIAN? How can a BROKE CHRISTIAN feed the homeless person...He's too busy wondering if he can AFFORD to feed, clothe, nurse, house, and finance others....Much less their families....! Fighting and feuding over money...HOW MUCH HAVE YOU GIVEN to Save the LOST just this week? TO feed a homeless person...to HELP PAY for a FAMILY's LOST HOUSE from KATRINA???? Nahh..you can't AFFORD IT, RIGHT?
Thought so.....Your conscience judges you..right there! End of discussion!

bobw · administrator

IT TAKES MONEY, riches, wealth, to build churches all over the world...It takes MONEY to get the BIBLE out...Uhhh to print, package, and ship all over the world. You think the GIDEON BIBLE SOCIETY just prints from an unsource of INK and PAPER and BINDING? C'mon
use your God given Wisdom and see the reason WHY God wants us to prosper. While at the same time...HOW CAN we show the HOLLYWOOD people that THEY NEED JESUS...by just "loving" them....NO! "To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all [men], that I might by all means save some." (1 Cor 9:21,22)

Study the Word...and remember...THE FRUIT is what counts. Ask youself, how does a person, pay of all those crusades..and shouldn't the Man or Woman of God be able to have riches and wealth...or is that for the CHRISTIAN who DOESN'T PREACH only....Just the ones who are STANDING in Church every sunday, who never pass out a tract to a sinner, but they make TONS OF MONEY on the Stock Market, Lottery winnings, Foreign Currency Exchange, etc. because the word says they can be rich?

It's not being rich..but WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR RICHES. If you have to fly around the world....Do you think that it's good to just pay for everybody's ticket to fly to every country, expecially the Muslim Countries on a commercial airline or maybe uhhhhhh, I don't know, just BUY A PLANE? What about China, Customs, and Terriorists who HATE CHRISTIANS? What's a man of God to do? Paul was BEAT MANY TIMES...now they are KILLIING the PEOPLE of GOD...Do you know how many missionaries (ESPECIALLY WOMEN) who have been beheaded for their Beliefs...Do you think we should go and ask the Muslim or Communist Governments, "Uhhh, could we come into your country to talk about JESUS???" I don't think so! or as you say...NOT!

What about all the people who attend these MEGA-CHURCHES...should we just have every service (in your estimation) by CANDLE LIGHT SERVICE..just to please you? Or maybe not have running water...or bathrooms at all..or no a/c in the summer or heat in the winter...JUST TO PLEASE YOU! It takes money..
and the WORKMAN IS WORTHY OF HIS HIRE!....Should ministers get paid, and by what SALARY..Should they get paid less...than the CORPORATE GIANT?? Is it wrong for a CHRISTIAN MINISTER TO BE A MILLIONAIRE....the bible doesn't say it's wrong..so WHO ARE YOU....to SPEAK AGAINST the word of God...

Biblical - YOu said "It's not being rich..but WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR RICHES" I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. If the Lord sees fit for you to have wealth then wonderful...USE IT FOR HIS KINGDOM, not yours! Jesse and other prosperity Gospel preachers all have taken the wealth and used it for their own personal good. When one is called by God to Minister His Gospel, he at that point in his life has take an oath to live for the Lord and preach His Word in season and out of season. The Lord will hold that person more accountable for his life than the person who does not accept the calling. No person needs to have multi-million dollar homes and rolls royce automobiles and 1000 dollar suits to preach the Word of God. As a matter of fact, if they took that same money and used it to help lost souls find Christ, they would at that point be doing their job as instructed by the Lord. Their reward awaits them in Heaven so that the Lord can say to them, "Well done my good and faithful servant". I cannot in my mind imagine what Jesus is going to say to those people who will have spent multiple of millions of dollars on homes, cars, suits, jets, etc when people all around them were starving not only for food but also for the Word. Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland spent, I believe 18 million and 20 million respectively on jet planes claiming the Lord told them to purchase one. BUT if you do the math, Jesse and Kenneth could have paid for a commercial flight evertime the needed to for the rest of their lives and not have spend 18 or 20 million dollars of airfare. Now I know you may not be aware of the Lords educational background, but I am convinced that He can add better than I can and if I could cipher it out, I bet the Lord did also. One would have to live for at least 30 years to spend that kind of money on airfare according to their normal flight useage and neither Jesse nor Kenneth are going to be flying for that many more years. Therefore, the money sure could have been used for more important things such as feeding MORE starving people and reaching MORE people starving for the WORD.
Sad to say, but sometimes the mote in our own eyes hampers our ability to see correctly and our stubbornness hinders us from being able to hear properly therefore making us susceptable to the false teachings of these types of preachers. Take a deep breath Biblical, get out the eye wash and the cuetips and see if there might be blockage, keeping you from seeing and hearing what is truly Holy and Just. God Bless you Sir.

-- Edited by bobw at 09:24, 2007-12-13

-- Edited by bobw at 09:27, 2007-12-13

DjBiblical · Active Member

Or should I say to you "BIBLICALLY" speaking!

Really though...the purpose to have wealth and riches is not to COMSUME them for the purpose of LUST...Lust of the eyes, lust of the Flesh, and the Pride of Life are in the world to destroy the soul that SEEKS and SERVES wealth and riches...GOD blesses us with wealth and riches..we have it, but it doesn't have us. Why...because my brother...IT TAKES MONEY, riches, wealth, to build churches all over the world...It takes MONEY to get the BIBLE out...Uhhh to print, package, and ship all over the world. You think the GIDEON BIBLE SOCIETY just prints from an unsource of INK and PAPER and BINDING? C'mon
use your God given Wisdom and see the reason WHY God wants us to prosper. While at the same time...HOW CAN we show the HOLLYWOOD people that THEY NEED JESUS...by just "loving" them....NO! "To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all [men], that I might by all means save some." (1 Cor 9:21,22)

Study the Word...and remember...THE FRUIT is what counts. Ask youself, how does a person, pay of all those crusades..and shouldn't the Man or Woman of God be able to have riches and wealth...or is that for the CHRISTIAN who DOESN'T PREACH only....Just the ones who are STANDING in Church every sunday, who never pass out a tract to a sinner, but they make TONS OF MONEY on the Stock Market, Lottery winnings, Foreign Currency Exchange, etc. because the word says they can be rich?

It's not being rich..but WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR RICHES. If you have to fly around the world....Do you think that it's good to just pay for everybody's ticket to fly to every country, expecially the Muslim Countries on a commercial airline or maybe uhhhhhh, I don't know, just BUY A PLANE? What about China, Customs, and Terriorists who HATE CHRISTIANS? What's a man of God to do? Paul was BEAT MANY TIMES...now they are KILLIING the PEOPLE of GOD...Do you know how many missionaries (ESPECIALLY WOMEN) who have been beheaded for their Beliefs...Do you think we should go and ask the Muslim or Communist Governments, "Uhhh, could we come into your country to talk about JESUS???" I don't think so! or as you say...NOT!

What about all the people who attend these MEGA-CHURCHES...should we just have every service (in your estimation) by CANDLE LIGHT SERVICE..just to please you? Or maybe not have running water...or bathrooms at all..or no a/c in the summer or heat in the winter...JUST TO PLEASE YOU! It takes money..
and the WORKMAN IS WORTHY OF HIS HIRE!....Should ministers get paid, and by what SALARY..Should they get paid less...than the CORPORATE GIANT?? Is it wrong for a CHRISTIAN MINISTER TO BE A MILLIONAIRE....the bible doesn't say it's wrong..so WHO ARE YOU....to SPEAK AGAINST the word of God...
SIR...we don't trust in Riches..depend on Riches..It is the WILL and PROMISE OF GOD....if not..how are we ABRAHAM'S CHILDREN who was VERY RICH in GOLD and SILVER and CATTLE????? HUH???? Do your research FIRST before coming and claiming that I am "un" biblical! TRUTH B TOLD! Now GO PRAY first and then come back!

DjBiblical · Active Member

Then MONEY must be God's god: See Deut 8:18., Joshua 1:8; III John 2;
Better yet why not just give you the scriptures:

2Ch 1:12

Wisdom and knowledge [is] granted unto thee; and I will give thee riches, and wealth, and honour, such as none of the kings have had that [have been] before thee, neither shall there any after thee have the like. (2Chron 1:2)

Psa 112:1

¶

Praise ye the LORD. Blessed [is] the man [that] feareth the LORD, [that] delighteth greatly in his commandments.

Psa 112:2

His seed shall be mighty upon earth: the generation of the upright shall be blessed.

Psa 112:3

Wealth and riches [shall be] in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

Ecc 5:19

Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this [is] the gift of God. (Ecc 5:19)

Ecc 6:2

A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desiret

Job 36:11

If they obey and serve [him], they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures. (OMG did the Word say THIS???)

So....Then....what do you say against the Word of God NOW! Your argument is not with ME but with God!

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

Soooo
what you,(un)Biblical, are saying is that if a guy has a spotless credit history and financial integrity then he's ok?
That sounds like money is your god ... Because if the money is right, the preacher is right .... WRONG!

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

I can only pray for you JAK. And offer this: Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death." Go after God's truth, not man's (who is a liar) version of it.

The Saint · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Are you for real? Judge teachers by their credit score? Please answer my previous question.

DjBiblical · Active Member

Jesus said, "You will know a tree by the fruit that it bears, for a bad tree can't
bear good fruit, and a good tree shall not bear bad fruit. Therefore you shall
know THEM by their fruit."

Look at the fruit. Are people getting saved. Are they getting delivered. Do a background check on Jesse Duplantis; he has a CLEAN financial record, above 790 Credit score, and his integrity is spotless in the business world (among the heathen, no negatives), and among Christians. SPOTLESS...

Creflo Dollar another minister, SPOTLESS. I can't speak for everyone else, but I can speak for these two who preach. And God being sovereign, would have EXPOSED them LONG AGO for any wrong doing.

So brother, Look at a person's fruit. Then look at your own. Why look at the spot in your brother's eye. Consider the beam in your own eye. Take out the beam in your eye and then you will see more CLEARLY your brother.

All must stand before God. But as Matt 7:1 says, Judge ye not, lest you be judged. For with the same measure (judgment you judge) you mete, it shall be meted back to you. YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU SOW.

Instead of criticizing the ear, or the nose, or the toes (that you think stink), if you are the hands...CLEAN them with your prayers and your INTEGRITY...Be the example to those who you think is WRONG or NOT OF GOD in YOUR SIGHT.. "If anyone sees a brother over taken in a fault, YOU WHO ARE SPIRITUAL(MATURE) deal with them (confront) them in a spirit of meekeness, CONSIDERING yourself also...."

Remember the fruit...do a background, check, INTERPOL, FTC, BBB check. Then to a SPIRITUAL check on YOU first then them...You will soon find out that a chocolate stain on a white robe is not different then splattered mud. A stain is a stain, but WHO WILL CLEAN IT....that's the question. The answer is:

THE BLOOD OF JESUS!

God bless!

JAK!

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

you put your life at stake EVERY TIME you come against GOD's ANOINTED!....

That line sounds very much like what Benny Hinn states when he is confronted concerning his misleading and, in error statements. The verse you seem to be refering to is 1 Chronicles 16:22 "Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm." The context which may elude you is that of physical harm. If by your statement you suggest that those who speak to correct or show them to be false prophets or teachers concerning a teaching on doctrine or scripture are somehow at risk of God's wrath, I would offer a question. If your defense of those who teach falsely is to proclaim they are anointed and not to be confronted with their error, why did not Peter use this same defense when Paul confronted him? Galatians 2:11-13 "When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. "

My personal opinion concerning what constitutes a false prophet is; if the person ever gives just one prophetic word that does not come about, that person is a false prophet, and forever will be. You say, but what if they repent? My responce would be; repentance is what is needed,, but as for returning to uttering prophetic words? No.

The anointing is the Holy Spirit who indwells and empowers us to live our lives acceptable to God. Without the Holy Spirit it is not possible. There is no anointing outside of that anointing which each believer receives at redemption through accepting and believing in the sacrifice of Yeshua for our sin's reconciling us to our God. The only way our strength of the Holy Spirits indwelling anointing in us increases, and it is not really an increase, it is as our maturity in Yeshua grows so does our understanding of God's will, solidifying our confidence of who we are in him and he in us.

-- Edited by Sojourner at 19:49, 2007-12-12

The Saint · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

DJ "Biblical"- Is it your assertion that anyone who claims to be of God can preach and teach anything they wish without any consequence or criticism?

DjBiblical · Active Member

I have just read your unholy tirade on a Man of God who YOU claim to be a false prophet. Never mind who the person is...let's just as you this? Who really is the False prophet?

If you believe so much in your principles of God, please tell me where it says to BASH another christian, and when did God TELL YOU do do it?

If you believe that your ministry is SO of God, why do YOU ask for donations on your website to SUPPORT your ministry?

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If you believe that your ministry is SO of God to "expose cults and false religions" what PROOF do you have to say that these ministries are all "hearsy" ministrires

If you believe that their ministries are FALSE, why then do you call them "Brother?"

You can't be a brother and be a heathen

You can't be a brother and hate another

You can't love God and Hate your brother (so you say he is).

Really, You sir are of your Father, THE DEVIL. Because only the DEVIL is the "accuser of the brethern."

Let me ask you this sir, HOW MANY souls have you won to Jesus Christ in the Last year?

How many disciples have you made in the Image of Jesus? "...and Jesus said unto the woman..Where are your accusers..."

Mar 16:15 "And he (Jesus) said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Have you done this lately?

Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised..." When is the LAST TIME you did this...but instead BASHED your "brothers"

Rom 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! <=== Can you say this is you??

1 Cor 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." How has the CROSS OF JESUS CHRIST affected people through YOUR ministry?

LIKE why is your phone number DISCONNECTED???? but STILL ON THE WEBSITE...??? FALSE HOOD maybe...It's not a REAL NUMBER or a working number...that is FALSE INFORMATION...right!

I could go on...but today..I am just introducing myself....You have wronged many a preacher...when you yourself have skeletons in the closet. God knows all of your sins and your anguish. This is why your life is so troubled and your ministry is small.

JESUS HAD A HUGE MINISTRY..and was VERY RICH.....Study JESUS' NET WORTH..and see why he had to employ who he did. Why would a THIEF want to be a part of a ministry who HAD NO money... What happened to ALL THAT GOLD that Jesus recieved at his birth? Didn't you know that an UNRIDDEN donkey was the Mercedez Benz of Jesus day? Study your SCRIPTURES...You blurt out scriptures about Men of God, who have SUBSTANCE and MANIFESTATION on their lives JUST LIKE JESUS....people liked him, loved him and hated him..You are one of those PHARISEES that hated Jesus...Jesus said, "If they hated me, they will hate you"

You see...instead of SAVING SOULS for JESUS...you turn souls won to Jesus against Jesus...Paul did that to Christians...calling them FALSE Prophets and even killing them..YOU KILL Christians with your WORDS...You have the FORM of godliness but DENY the power of God (which is LOVE) ...because PERFECT LOVE Cast out all fear....However you don't show the love of God...but rather show the LAW....because the Spirit of God is the Love of God....GOD is LOVE...you don't show love in your doctrine but you show hate..

Like...others..I will be back...YOU SIR need to get on your face and pray..because you put your life at stake EVERY TIME you come against GOD's ANOINTED!....

KalosMan