Forgotten Word Ministries Blog

jacinta513 · Active Member

RE: T.D. Jakes False Preacher/Teacher

bobw · administrator

Jacinta,
I understand what you are saying in regards to the "it will not stand", but the problem is in the meantime many souls may be lost because of false teaching. I agree with you in regards to you having to look at yourself and all but you must understand that when you look at way you daughter is dressed and it is not acceptable to you and you have her change into something more modest, you are then judging her and her decision to dress that way. There is NOTHING wrong with that, that is the appropriate response that you should take. Judging Preachers and their teachings is the same thing. Judge not less you be judged is not as you think. In a nutshell it means that IF you are committing adultery and you hide it and at the same time accuse someone else of committing adultery you are not only a hipocrate but you will be judged for the same adulterous act as the one you accused. If you are not committing adultery and you know someone who is and you confront them, you are not committing a sin, you are following the instructions of our Lord Jesus. You MUSt not allow yourself to feel guilty for judging what someone is doing. You CANNOT judge their soul and salvation but you MUsT CERTAINLY JUDGE what they are teaching so you can warn your daughter and others so they are not deceived and lose their way or you are as guilty as the one who led them down the wrong path because you knew better and DiD Nothing! Hope you understand. It is not as you perceive.
In Christ Love please pray about what I have said here.

God Bless you!
BOb

jacinta513 · Active Member

yeshua's love:

Dear One, I have already responded to you about the very same subject matter and your point was taken, but apparently I didn't get mine across to you. I feel that it is not my position, my job to judge you or anyone for what they do because like I have said and said until I'm almost blue in the face.....if it is not of God, be it you, me, Bishop Jakes, Peter Popoff or whoever, it will not stand......so, why do I need to try to do God's job when He has already spoken. Everything my Father says comes to pass....I don't doubt His word. I don't feel that He is incompetent to do His job/His will, therefore trying to judge others......I truly believe that God is and will do everything He has said......So, my point is still the same......I get your point.....if you choose to judge, then you judge and I'm not mad at you because you do so.......that I don't have to answer for.....I only have to answer for the things that I have done........so, Happy New Year! May your year be blessed with blessings beyond blessings....My new year's resolution is to give more of myself in honor of what God has done and will do in my life to make me holy and acceptable to His will. God bless you.....

Jacinta513

yeshua'slove · Active Member

Why should 'God Fearing' Christians name names when dealing with those in public ministry?
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged( WE Have Misled by)

Those who cling to "Judge not, that ye be not judged" to condemn those who expose error should read the entire chapter. Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing... " (v. 15). How can we know false prophets unless we judge them by what is written in the Word of God? If we know of false teachings, and those who teach them, how can we fail to warn the sheep of these "ravening wolves?" All through the Bible we find proof that they should be identified and exposed.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Righteous judgment is based upon the solid word of God for our foundation. We can judge others based upon the Word of God. Using the Word as our guide, we judge others.
Look how Paul Judged in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13

1Co 5:1 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you-something that even pagans don't do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.
1Co 5:2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.
1Co 5:3 Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man
1Co 5:4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church. I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.
1Co 5:6 Your boasting about this is terrible. Don't you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough?
1Co 5:7 Get rid of the old "yeast" by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.
1Co 5:8 So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth.

1Co 5:9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin.
1Co 5:10 But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that.
1Co 5:11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don't even eat with such people.

1Co 5:12 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.
1Co 5:13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you." (NLT)

A person who is able to discern between good and evil, has at least one of the major marks of spiritual maturity. Let's look at Hebrews 5:14

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The very word 'discern' means to judge.
We are to REBUKE them.

Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Look at the surrounding passages of Titus 1:10-16. To whom was Paul referring when he wrote this to Titus?
Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision:
Tit 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Tit 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

SOOOO MANY KOOLAIDE DRINKERS! DRINK IT UP YUM YUM

For money's sake - unruly, vain talkers and deceivers were fooling whole houses, and leading them astray. Teaching them things that they should not teach. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Just watch a couple of hours of the so-called Christian broadcasting and you'll bear witness to on the television stations today.
Many high profile preachers and evangelists are subverting whole houses with their false doctrine today. Are we to sit silently by, while they do this, without rebuking and admonishing people to avoid their teaching? I say NOT! Sound doctrine is supposed to be too precious to us.

Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

We are to have NO FELLOWSHIP with them.
Jakes has many other false teachings including word-faith, and the prosperity gospel
TD Jakes becomes a conduit for false homosexual theology
http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/td-jakes-becomes-a-conduit-for-false-homosexual-theology/
by IndependentConservative @ 9:24 am. Filed under Nuts on Parade, Video Well I told you it was coming and on night one they broke out their home run hitter. T.D. Jakes twisted scripture and played a fleece game that was a sad sight to behold. I caught some of the video of this sorry excuse for a preacher, that some people choose to adore, fleecing people in the name of the Lord. The scripture he abused and twisted was 2 Kings 6:1-7. In short, its the story of a man who lost an ax head he had borrowed. The ax head fell into the water and this man didnt know what to do. The prophet of God Elisha (Jakes mistakenly says it was Elijah) asked the man where the ax head fell, tossed in a stick and the iron ax head floated, so the man could retrieve the ax head. It was a miracle from almighty God and Jakes misrepresented the story to fleece the flock.See

http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/04/09/td_jakes_pimps_4_tbn/

-- Edited by yeshua'slove at 08:36, 2009-01-04

-- Edited by yeshua'slove at 08:38, 2009-01-04

jacinta513 · Active Member

Well, once again, for you, Know the Truth, I am trying to make sure that I make it into God's holy kingdom.....But I very well can't do that if I'm busy pointing the finger and calling out the sins of you, Bishop Jakes and every person that comes along....For, this I know, if it is not of God, it will not prevail.....that stands for you, Bishop Jakes, me, and anyone else in this world......So, once again and once and for all, I am not trying to be judgmental of you, Bishop Jakes, Peter Popoff, Shirley Caesar or anyone else...I'm critiquing me and trying to get my soul prepared for entry into heaven.....That's a job big enough that I won't have time to worry about the faults of another man, as is the case with each and every individual. Again, I say, sweep around your own front door before you try to sweep around mine, by the Williams Brothers is an alltime favorite song of mine.....It speaks directly of this subject matter....you should look it up on Limewire and take a listen (Sweep Around Your Own Front Door)......That I believe is what is wrong with this world today....always looking at everyone but themselves and trying to judge when there is something within themselves that they need to judge and get right with God and not worry about the next man.....All I'm saying........

KnowTheTruth · Newbie

People have the right to know what a prophet, evangelist, pastor or chaplain believes. The Bible warns us about false prophets, and we know them by their fruits--lifestyle, doctrine, and beliefs. The Holy Ghost leads and guides men into ALL truth; therefore, where there is error, the Holy Ghost is not presence.
There are leaders in the church world who conceal the true identity of counterfeit ministers and ministries from others in the name of and under the disguise of equal opportunity and discrimination policies. They are in collusion with the powers of darkness.
Ephesians 5:11 states, "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them (NIV)." God Bless those of us who are on the Lord's side and who are willing to expose the devil's schemes, plots, and plans.

Romans 16:17-18 (New International Version)

17I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.

jacinta513 · Active Member

If you're saying that I have an ego, then that is of course your personal opinion.......I still stand on what I said that God didn't put us here to judge others......we find so much time to critique everybody else that we don't have anytime to critique ourselves. Once again, I love the gospel song, Sweep Around Your Own Front Door Before You Try To Sweep Around Mine, by the Williams Brothers.........Bless you all.....

Jacinta

arhinalaska · Active Member

Be careful about self opinions especially if it is negative, you live in negative influences, you will not benefit nothing, satan blesses too. T.D. Jakes walks in a true realm of the spirit. Remember how the tower of Babel was build? It was build by greed and pride. Some of us need to check our hearts and be in right standing with God. We need to change our minds in how we look at people, and see if we are in rightstanding, I had to learn because I did not like this certain man in ministry. I went home and asked God if I was living in truth. Every since then I had breakthrough after breakthrough. Some of us need to lay our ego's on the alter and die to pride.

jacinta513 · Active Member

Yes, Yeshua.....and I was one of the many soldiers who served my country during desert storm for you to continue to have your freedom.....You've made your point.....I made mine...end of story......you still believe what you believe....I still believe what I believe....nothing changed.....so there.......And no, I'm not sooooooo defensive about my opinion, Jakes' opinion or anybody else's opinion for that matter.......because in the end.....that's exactly what it is....an opinion.....It's okay.....cause I'm still blessed and I know and understand where my blessings come from....and I'm continuing to praise Him each and every day for the known and the unknown....God bless you....jacinta513

yeshua'slove · Active Member

jacinita513
Yes thank you for you reply. I was not here 2 weeks ago when this topic came up. The point about welfare is if the church was doing their part as to taking care of the poor there would be no need for the welfare system.Regarding of the biblical command mandated by G-d to take care of the poor,widows,fatherless. Likewise if some people in church on welfare would be honest they would not miss use the system if they realy believed and thought  G-d was watching them. I was trying to make the point the whole system is screwed up including some ministers making millions of $$$$$. It appears that you are very defensive about Jakes your opinions. Yes we are allowed free speech according to the constituion;however it is not allowed by G-d's word every thing we say their was a priced payed(OUR TONGUES ARE WEAPONS)Yeshua payed that price. The free speech you speak about came at a cost by braves soldiers.

Now to address the real issue with these mega pastors GREED. I say let them have their 17 jets, 4 million $$ house and their other 1 million play houses in the mountains,beaches, 1 million $ worth of cars setting in the drive way. let them stay in exclusive luxury resorts 2,ooo a night when there in town for a speaking engagement, however let them QUIT getting up there professing the precious name of Yeshua who did not even have a 1$ house  as an adult  minister   to live in and tell me G-d has blessed them that's rubbish there greed has got them rich. When there is not 1 single mom or 1 widow or 1 family in there town not sleeping in the car because they have been foreclosed on then I will change my opinion. Shame on them who have plenty and disregards the needy and begs for more.

I came from a single famliy there were 4 children my mom worked payed her way through nursing school and never recieved welfare assistance she was eligable Iam sure,but she said there's someone that's worse off than us. We   lacked material substance and the drive inn was a luxury along with a coke.I lived in a trailer park until I was19 but we had LOVE even though we were hungry at times and sitting in the dark. Likewise Iam a mother of 4 we have not ever used any gov. assistance, we do without luxury vacations namebrands, we dont go to nail salons  etc. however we still find ways to minister to the poor of our community. You get it some of us are just barely making it or doing without basic needs while some of the mega leaders are hollering   furious

your life will be better if you plant a seed, give to the poor that my ministry supports oh help us spread the gospel while we fly in our million $$$$$$ jets into these poor countries and go into our poor communitys in our jaguar to pass out lunches/backpacks etc.Iam currently working in my own battlefield 12yrs in an EMERGENCY ROOM and my last semester of nursing school MY 45 year old brother has been in USAF 23 years and been to Iraq 8 times C-130 pilot he's been shot at lost engines in flight, slept in 120 degree desert multiple times yes he's been away from us alot ,so he's also payed the price for our freedom of speech to who Iam thankful likewise thank you for you sacrifice in the military for our freedom. May G-d enlighten your heart oh by the way Iam not judging watch , listen, discern for yourself the truth will be revealed if you will let it. Have a Bless Day nice blogging with you wink

jacinta513 · Active Member

yeshua'slove

Why am I here? Well, probably for the same reason that you are.....because I choose to be. I have that right until the administrator says different....the same as you.....I am not closed minded. But I am entitled to believe what I choose to believe.....just as you are.....

This conversation was so many weeks ago.....why are you still on it?.......I said that I wasn't going to comment on it again.........Everyone, including me, is entitled to believe whatever they want to believe. I just so happen to believe that God did not put us here to judge......It is not my job to pass judgment on someone else when I am not sin free. So, that's that. It is the end of it....Believe what you want.....And I will do the same.......Everything T.D. Jakes does may not be holy......but neither is everything you do......neither is everything I do........nobody.....absolutely no one is free from sin......

Where you are going with this conversation, I have no clue, because I am not a welfare recipient, I don't get an SSI check on the 3rd, and I am not a panhandler. As a matter of fact, I am a 12 year veteran of the United States Army. I am also a mother of 4 beautiful children. But if I was a welfare recipient, you wouldn't know the reasoning behind why I was on the system. Some people do abuse the system. However there are some of the people who are in the system who honestly need the help. Either way, it is not my job to judge a person because they are on welfare......yours either........Sweep around your own front door before you try to sweep around someone else's......

But I say to you, let it go........everyone is entitled to their beliefs.........including me.......whether you or whoever likes it or not.......and I believe what I believe.......end of story.....I guess that is the reason I love this country because we are free to think what we choose without being stoned to death.......l...Thank you, Jesus.

JACINTA513

yeshua'slove · Active Member

JACINTA513
Why are you even here on this form? Why are you so closed minded ?yes at the time my mother died a 55year old nurse single mother of 4 children strangers in my community old patients that she attended too came to the visitation and ministered to me and my sibilings. Along with that the peace that surpassed all understanding lifted our spirits in our days of sorrow that can only come from Yeshua. However all 2000 people that visited us all encouraged us in some way. There was some ungodly people that came to pay respect a known wife beater my mom took care of, a murder came, a millionaire came, a homeless person and yes her peers MD'S, nurses,several pastors every one in there own way contributed. But even though they were their in our hours of need does not mean I must agree with their beliefs or lifestlye.

Yes T.D.Jake probally encouraged you at that time of sorrow, but that does not every thing he says or does is holy.

I donot agree with the finances of the Mega Star Bible Thumping Leaders.

1.There would be no welfare system it will be totally devastated they will be No. uno for the beastmark. If ones on the welfare system will be honest and go to work , and stop being lazy and expecting a handout and be held accountable by the church they would be better off oh there's a thought G-d has judged this already.
(Now the real widows and working struggling single mom's deseve help not the one's setting on their duff living on a lifestyle of waiting every 3rd day of the month. Yes the church has not done their job by letting them get by with it as far as T.D. Jakes, J Myers, P White, goes shame on them if there is 1 widow or 1 single mom in their church or community saved or unsaved remember we are not to have respect of person's that has lost their home, done without food had there lights turned off, couldnt afford to go to the DR forced to go on welfare because of no help. It's wonderful if they are helping these third world countries but what about there town there placed in, what about there sheepfold, the very neighbours in their community. What about the single mom letting her child go hungry because she had to chose between house, lights, car to drive to work or medicine. Shame on them for going to their million dollar houses, and driving half million $ cars when their are single mom's , dads having to ride the bus or walk.

bobw · administrator

Greetings,
The difference in what you say we are doing and what others are doing is that we do not take any money to make ourselves rich. We use the money to pass onto others the Word of God. IF, I was to ask for donations and then use those donations to purchase myself new car(s), new house(s), multiple jet plane(s) etc., then I would be wrong as I would be taking monies donated for the purpose of furthering the Gospel and using it to further my own agenda.

YOu mentioned: 17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I do not see that I am taking anything out of context. How do you figure? Mr. Copeland as an example has 17 jet planes. How can you or anyone else justify him purchasing that many jet planes with monies donated for the work of the Gospel? IF you can justify that, then I am a monkeys uncles as some like to say.

I have no problem with any ministry or preacher asking for donations IF they are truly going to use them for the work of the Lord. But, to use those hard earned monies that were donated for a specific cause (furthering the Gospel work) to purchase $2000 suits and 3 or 4 vehicles and 3 or 4 different houses and go on vacation and rent a presidential suite for $3000 per night is outrageous. You can call it anything you wish but it does not change the fact that those who do this are actually stealing from the Lord for their own selfish reasons.

Let's take TBN for an example. Why would anyone need to spend the millions of dollars they spend on their set designs. Do they truly need to have gold covered furniture, drapes backdrops etc., to be able to have a tv show to spread the gospel? I think not. Those kinds of expenses are unnecessary and are a waste of the much needed finances that should be used to help spread the Word of God and feed the poor.

You my friend are confusing being prosperous with greed. There is nothing wrong with someone being successful and prosperous. There is something very wrong with someone claiming to need donations just so they can purchase something for themselves under the disguise of using the money for God's work.

Jesus sat on a hillside and preached the Word. He very easily could have had the deciples or anyone else construct a beautiful stage with glorious decorations which certainly would have gotten attention but He knew that is not a requirement for spreading the truth and love of God.

I appreciate your concern and your words.

bob w

frozenchoseninak · Active Member

17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

to use verses the "administrator" used, to clarify this sites obvious "judgmental attitude". It would seem and could also be that the "administrator" is doing exactly what he accuses others of doing, taking scripture out of its setting and using the same for his own agenda(s).

Oh, another contributor stated that there is no judgment, rather "discern" : means to use discriminate judgment.

if this is not judgment what is it?
Just playing with the font thing. The way that people misconstrue what Jesus was saying when He said that He did not have a place to lay his head, HE WAS AT THAT TIME TRAVELLING ROUNDABOUT JERUSALEM, NAZARETH, GALILEE, ETC. THERE ARE OTHER VERSES THAT INDICATE THAT JESUS WENT INTO "THE HOUSE". IT IS IMPLIED IN THESE VERSES THAT IT WAS HIS OR HIS FAMILY HOUSE, BECAUSE WHEN HE (JESUS) WENT INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S HOUSE, THE WORD OF GOD STATES WHOSE HOUSE HE WENT TO.

Here is a passage of Scripture that has been misrepresented alot also. LUKE 18:
17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

25For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?

27And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

28Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.

29And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,

30Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

This is also in Matthew chap 19 verses 16 - 29. Here is verse 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

The point of this illustration is not that being rich is the problem. It is that the riches have the heart. It is the "love of money that is the root of all evil" not, money is the root of evil. If money is the problem, ALL ministry sites SHOULD DO AWAY WITH THE CONTRIBUTION OPTION on their sites (including this one) no matter what their "excuse" for having it is. ("I don't use the finances that come to this ministry through the web site donations for personal use, but, use it to send out Bibles.') If that is what you are to be doing through your ministry, God is capable of making sure you have the wherewithal to do it, without having to have a place to donate on the web site, wouldn't you think?

If people would understand the question in verse 26, the disciples were in a quandary, because those that had been fisherman had houses, boats, nets, etc. in other words, prosperity from their businesses. And there are too many people who continue reading and not letting verse 30 come alive in their heart. JESUS SPOKE THESE WORDS, and Jesus said He only spoke what the Father would have Him speak. Here is a question: When did Jesus say that the receiving of manifold more would take place? IN THIS PRESENT TIME!

Then we should all look at the man named Joseph, mentioned at the crucifixion of Jesus, when the disciples wanted to put Jesus in a tomb. There was a man named Joseph of Arimethea, a RICH MAN who was also a disciple of JESUS.

According to what is taught about "those prosperity people", and "the prosperity gospel", this man Joseph probably shouldn't be a disciple, BECAUSE HE WAS RICH.

Just because there are ministries that are being blessed, (beyond what others may be) does not give us the right to use Scripture out of context, and make that Scripture fit our pet peeves, or our lack of knowledge and understanding.

Just as the "administrator" has found by sending out Bibles, it takes finances to operate a ministry that is successful. Even Jesus had people "giving of their substance" to finance His ministry, and there was even a "thief" in Jesus' ministry team. Would it be wrong to think that those that gave out of their substance, would be giving money? Then there are the times that the disciples had questions about how much bread should be bought, and would they have bought enough. Sounds like this is a ministry that didn't lack, but, was also dependent upon God (the Heavenly Father) to supply and "show off" His pleasure in what Jesus did.

According to the Word of God, in Galatians chap 3, we as believers have the blessings of Abraham. Abraham was very rich in gold, silver and cattle. It would seem that if we have the blessings of Abraham, who was blessed so he could be a blessing, that is what we are to be!

jacinta513 · Active Member

God bless you, wordworker....

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

I'm not angry with you. I wrote in bold italics because once I cut and paste something from another post I am no longer able in MY FORMAT to return to normal font size and type.

I just pray that those deceiving spirits and spirits of pride that make you feel superior to everyone else on this board will manifest themselves in such a way that you will no longer be able to deny that you have a problem and you will soon seek deliverance.

jacinta513 · Active Member

I will pray for you wordworker. You have a lot of issues that you have need to work out......But I'm not your problem......Tackle that demon within you that's causing so much anger within you against me....I see you're using bold letters....does it mean that you're screaming at me? Well, nevertheless, the devil is a lie! God bless you, my brother in Christ.......and I'm glad I'm not God, too.....He has his hands full dealing with all these angry people. Have a most pleasant evening.....wordworker.....oh, and by the way, your name fits you properly, you have a majestical way of working words....only thing is, they don't rattle my chain....sorry....try someone else.....cause the devil doesn't have control over my life in that matter to let mere words destroy my soul......Man's words are only powerful if they are taken to heart.....I don't take your words to heart....But someone who is weak, that might be a possibility......But I've heard all kinds of words, yours sound delightful when it comes to trying to hurt my feelings or whatever your objective may be.......Again, the devil is a lie....and I love you all the same.....Jacinta

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

[Point and case: your judgement and the judgement of all these other "Christians" (if you will)]

Sounds to me like you made a "judgement" about "all these other 'Christians' (if you will)" right here ... putting quotes around a word implies that you don't believe that word is accurate ... so the judgement is pretty obvious.

Oh ... btw ... I'm glad you aren't God, too!

-- Edited by wordworker at 10:23, 2008-09-13

jacinta513 · Active Member

Wstricklandkids,

I accept what you are saying....np....everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want to believe....everyone is entitled to their own opinions.......First of all, let me clarify something......I am not a minister, pastor, Bishop....I don't claim to know the Bible THAT well......as a matter of factness......if the Lord sees fit for me to live another 200 years, I will still be a student in learning when it comes to the Bible.....however, I do read my Bible.....I am not a pro on anything but trying to get my soul right....I am constantly looking at me as a whole, trying to figure out where I'm wrong......In this day and time, I just find that too many people of the cloth are giving sermons shooting down the other people of the cloth, instead of leading their flocks to salvation.....I don't want to hear how Ms. White's teachings are wrong because she's driving a 2009 Bentley, living in a 30 room mansion in Beverly Hills, teaching the word.....What I do want to hear is the food that I need to make me right....tell me what I need to do to make it to heaven......that is what is important......I don't know about you, but I don't benefit from what others have or don't have, materialistically.....I don't.........I wants some words of life so that I might live and know HIM! I don't want to hear critics of what one minister thinks a certain other minister is doing wrong because again.....and it's becoming tiresome saying it......I don't have to pay for what they have/are doing.....Let's just say that Bishop Jakes is all that people say he is in the negative......If he is, Bishop Jakes has to pay the price for it.......Nobody is perfect....Nobody is without sin.....Absolutely nobody.......the Bible says that....and if you have read your Bible at some point...or not...maybe you've been to church...or maybe not....maybe you've read another entry in the Forgotten Word Ministries......somewhere it should have been mentioned that Jesus paid the ultimate price for you, me, Rev. Wise, Bishop Jakes and everybody, so that we might have another shot at this............we are all without blemish....and until WE all realize this and stop trying to cast judgment on everybody else's faults and work on ourselves, it is a continuous sin.........My perfect example is of myself.......My mother was disabled, bedridden with a series of heart attacks, resulting in a triple by-pass surgery, a series of strokes that left her paralyzed, unable to walk or the use of her hands, neuropathy that would have her in ultimate pain day in and day out, emphysema, complete renal failure, and last, but certainly not least, severe epileptic seizures......I was living in Lafayette, LA at the time that my mother was stricken with all of these illnesses, seems like simultaneously.......My mother and other family members (father and a sister and brother) were in Hattiesburg, MS.....My father was starting to exhibit symptoms of altzheimer's disease.....My brother and sister didn't have time to take care of my parents, so, my brother decided to place them in a nursing home where they never wanted to be.......this being voiced in conversation a long time before either of them ever became ill.......now, I could sit here and be judgmental of both of them because my sister doesn't work and has not for about 10 years.....my brother works, but is living in my parents house rent free while my dad is still paying for a mortgage as I write, but works for Fed-Ex....And understand me, this is not me being judgmental of what I think I see....these are simply the facts......I moved back home without question, moved both of my parents back into the home they worked so hard for, moved across the street and took care of them without question or fuss.......I would get up faithfully, walk across the street, change my mother's diaper, give her a bath, change her linen, cook her food, feed her, give her meds, comb her hair, clothe her, pick her up (with the help of my fiance and my 4 children), put her in her chair, take her to her doctor appointments, take her to dialysis treatment three times a week, stay with her in the emergency room, in the hospital room until her release........I could go on and on.....I could have fussed about having to do all this by myself, knowing that there were two other siblings that could have helped. But what purpose would that serve. They are her children just like I am......But you know what, I didn't care about what they did or didn't do because it was only going to cause problems for me to be judgmental about the situation....more problems that were all avoided because it just wasn't what was important to me to do that.......I loved my mother and would do anything humanly possible for her.....so, I did what I needed to do to make her comfortable......because she was my mother and I loved her that much and because from the time that I was separated from her womb, she did all that I had done for her without question.......she wiped my butt free from the contents of my diaper.....so, why couldn't I do it for her........It was hard because I never saw my mother in pain like that....at one point, I thought I would lose my mind, trying to figure what to do to make the pain go away.....After her 3rd surgery to have a permanent port put into her leg for her kidney dialysis treatments (Wednesday, July 8th), she came through the surgery and had to stay for observations....She went home Tuesday afternoon, July 9th. I made sure she was comfortable, not hungry or thirsty, clean diaper, meds and all.......I checked on her 5 or 6 times, then went home to prepare dinner for my family and get ready to start the next day all over again in the care of my mother........But, at 10:30 p.m. Tuesday night, my brother came bamming on the door and told me that she had stopped breathing......the ambulance was already there......she was gone......Lord knows, I was lost and didn't know what I was going to do...sometimes I still don't........I was really out of it.....I cried until I made myself sick........it was a sermon on TV from Bishop Jakes (who I love watching and listening to whenever I can) that let me know that it was alright.....that she was alright.....and that I was going to be okay.......I could have been bitter about a lot of things that transpired during this time......I could have really been so judgmental of my sister and brother.....I probably could still be judgmental about them....but, why? What purpose would it serve......? Would it change the fact that she's not here? Would it make me feel better? Would it make them see the point? I don't think it would touch the surface....But that's neither here nor there.....I loved my mother and would do it again if I could have the chance to do it.......You see, before my mother became ill like that, I would find myself being judgmental of anything or anyone that could be discussed......something about seeing my mother in the state she was and remembering something she told me when I was a child.........."Baby, you've got to get yourself right with God to be with HIM! You can't talk about the people and what they do or say because you aren't perfect and you sho' ain't God.....When you find yourself wanting to talk about what someone else is doing or ain't doing......go, look in the mirror....." Those words rang in my head as if I was back in that time and hearing her say it again.......I thank God for allowing such a creature to be in my life....better yet....I thank God that he blessed me to be a part of hers.......I thank God for Bishop Jakes for lifting my spirits on the day of my mother's funeral or I think I would have just lost it that day.....I kept him on my mind......I thanked God for him.....He may not be all that everyone EXPECTS him to be, but nobody is justified in trying to say what he should or should not be, what he should say or should not say, what he should have or should not have.....it is not for us to determine..........I'm going to worry about my salvation and try to do what God would have me to do to do that.....and that was my point.......I think I am done commenting because I never meant to cause a frenzy, make anyone mad or anything of that nature......Religion will cause an uproar when nothing else will....People are always pointing the finger....you hardly ever have someone walk up and say, "You know what, I need to look at what's wrong with me.....I want to focus my attention on my faults instead of pointing the finger at the next man." Hardly ever.....But I'm glad God allows me to look at me, inside and out and try to get it right with Him......Thank you for your comment. Thank you, Rev. Wise, The Forgotten Word Ministries and all your friends of the ministry for allowing me to comment here.....God bless you and I love you all......Jacinta

wstricklandkids · Newbie

Wow...I am up late tonight and reading the banter going on between ya'll. I think that something very basic got lost in "principle". I come back to this website often to get opinions of people who are versed in apologetics and discernment. I have been warned by people along my spiritual path about "judging" someone. I am usually cut off before I finish my sentence when I have a problem with someone's teaching.

If we don't start faithfully and selectively watching and discerning what we hear, we could be in great trouble. I am seeing a convergence from a church that works hard to follow God's commands moving ever so slightly into a church that learns to tolerate what used to be deplorable to God. It is not there yet, but it is heading that way.

I feel that if we as a Church family don't really stay focused on pleasing our Creator and following His commands...we can be led astray. WE are told to encourage and lift up each other, but we are also told to judge the tree by its fruit. It is never too late to be saved until after He comes. It is also never to late to be led astray...that would be so tragic.

I am thankful for this ministry. I very rarely detect any information passed along by Rev. Wise that includes anger. He seems to be truly compassionate and jealous for the people of God and wants Christians to be aware of the wolves in sheeps clothing that are so much more numerous these days.

I love listening to TD Jakes. I love listening to Beth Moore. But I have to wonder when I hear something from one of them that makes me feel uncomfortable. I would never hear Beth Moore say it is ok to be wealthy. I would be concerned if she had to "sell me" the offering on a Sunday. I compare the two because both of them are entertaining to me.

Bishop Jakes has taught some wonderful sermons. I know that he probably does has a love for the Lord...but is it at all possible...at all....that he could fall to Satan because money might sneak up behind him and become his god? I al NOT saying that has happened. But when we have a question in our hearts, we need to discern.

That is what I think Rev. Wise is offering us. HIs opinion based on biblical fact. I appreciate having somewhere to go to study this. I don't feel at that that Rev. Wise is saying "Believe me or you will go to hell" He is saying, however, that he has been given insight and he would like to share it with those who are seeking.

I am just a lowly Christian servant. I don't even claim to know the bible even a tenth as well as you...but i felt the need to put in my small opinion.

Thanks for allowing me to post.

jacinta513 · Active Member

Do I detect anger in your writing, wordworker? LOL....God bless you. I think you are confused by your own thoughts and words that you forget that you are the one
saying that someone is going to hell....remember these words, wordworker, they are your own words.....

"That's the problem ... HE will pay the price ... and SO WILL ALL THOSE WHO FELL FOR HIS FALSEHOODS!"

Then you try to turn it around and say that I am a what, a self-righteous pharasee. I don't claim to be self-righteous. All I said is that I don't spend my time trying to be judgmental of others when I am not free of sin....I am not perfect. I have faults and quick to recognize them. I am stubborn. I'm not a saint. Never claimed to be. I am an avid believer that there is none perfect, but the Father. And you're absolutely right, wordworker, about me for once in all your comments pertaining to me.....I do need to check my attitude.....I know this......but before you try to give me advice about my attitude........you might need an attitude check up yourself.......Look in the mirror and those very same words you toss at me, try saying them to yourself and think about what it means when it pertains to you. You seemed angry right from the very beginning, yet I was the one who was sent the message about big letters/screaming.......It wasn't a problem for me because I didn't mean it to be screaming. I have bad vision (one of my other faults), so, I tend to write in larger letters in bold so that I can see what I'm typing and/or for those other people who are as imperfect as I and have bad vision, too. Besides that, that was a lesson learned for me in using the internet.....I didn't know that larger, bolder letters meant screaming......I know now, thank you, Rev. Wise, for bringing that to my attention. So, as not to offend you, wordworker, or anyone else, I don't do that anymore. I did....But I don't anymore......Remember, I know and believe that I am not perfect! I'm working on me.......It is, believe you me, a continuous work-in-progress........Literally.........Everyone, especially me, is not perfect.....Nobody........even me......Lord, how many times can I stress that point and get it over.......But my main point, wordworker, is that neither are you.....So, why try to judge someone else on their faults when yours are not up to par....That is my only point in this.....I am not, by any means, trying to justify my righteousness........My good works will be rewarded........My bad.....they will be consequential.....Whatever seed I sow, I shall reap........One thing is for certain and for sure......you and I......in that matter....are in the same boat........Because I am no better than you.......and wordworker.....you are no better than I.......But I still love you as my brother in Christ no matter how angry you get with me for voicing my opinion.......You're getting angry with me as if my opinion has been voted on and made law.........Goodness gracious..........I am only one person......if my thoughts are that powerful, I could be a politician, huh? Have a blessed and wonderful day, Wordworker! Jacinta

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

It must be a wonderful thing to be so caught up in self-righteous pharasee-ism that you know you have the right to tell someone they are going to hell and that NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD has the right to suggest you need to check your own attitude! doh

jacinta513 · Active Member

Rev. Wise,

I was responding to one of your other friends of the ministry and had not gotten to responding to your comment. I hope my last reply to you explained my position on the question you asked. Never. I am not God and never pretend or try to be......I believe that is your position, Reverend. When I said something about convicting me and condemning me to hell, I was not replying to you.........I was replying to one of your many friends of the ministry.

Feel sorry for me. Lol. Please don't feel sorry for me. I am not deceived into believing anything other that what God said. So, are you saying that God is a deceiver? I study my Bible. I don't just go on man's words in a pulpit, cause' man will tell a lie looking at him straight. I believe on the words of God. As long as I believe in His word, you or any of your friends' words can't even make me angry. I live my life doing more than just saying I love God. The Bible says, but of course, you should know this, "A hearer of the word is a doer of the word." I do love my neighbors, even when they don't love me. When someone does me wrong, I don't get them back by being violent or telling lies about them to satisfy self. I love them all the more because I know without fail that my God will take care of it. That is apparently what you don't understand. I can't or won't bring down any other individual because I'm mad they are driving a mercedes and I'm driving a pinto. You know, this takes me back to when Hurricane Katrina hit. This town was a complete mess. Being born and raised here in Mississippi, I've seen the racism and separatism all my life. But after the storm, the rich people here and the poor people were all the same. Nobody had access the ATM machines. Nobody had power, water, gas. Everybody had to stand in the same line to get ice, food, gas, what have you. That is the exact same way it's going to be when judgment day comes. Your site, Bishop's televised conventions, none of that is going to save me. It's going to be based on how I've lived my life.....end of story.....it will be remember when you did thus and so....I am concerned about people.......that, my friend, is your opinion and yours only....And I love my family very much. My natural family and my spiritual family. Yes, Jesus did tell us to beware of false teachings....but he didn't say to judge.......I have, am and will be praying for you, Reverend Wise. I love you, my spiritual brother in Christ.

Jacinta

jacinta513 · Active Member

No, I am not missing what you or the others there are saying. Not by a long shot. What I am not doing is judging anyone. As I said before. The Bible does not give specifications as to when it is okay to judge. For the 15th millionth time......that is what judgment day is for. He said, "JUDGE NOT, lest you be judged." No exceptions to the rule came after that. I respect what each and every one of you has said....I simply disagree with it. If you feel that it is okay for you to judge, then at that point, you are saying that God's existence is useless and has no meaning. We don't need him. Each and every one of you has faults and has sinned somewhere at some point in life. You have probably done something that may have been shameful at some point in your lives. We just don't know it because maybe it's not been exposed. But I am not to judge you for that. God's job. So, the same as it is not your job to judge Bishop Jakes or anyone else for that matter.....not your job. God has given you a job and I'm sure it wasn't to dethrone him......Excuse me for saying it like this, but you people are so caught up in the wrongdoings of someone else that you can point the finger and say how someone else is going to hell for what they are teaching and preaching. Get right with God for you because in the end, you won't be able to save your mother, father, sister, brother, uncle, aunt, children, cousin, 'friends'. You will only be able to save your own soul. My relatives do attend churches where I disagree with the teachings and preachings of the church. But you know how I handle that? I don't judge my relatives for attending and believing them, because they were raised and taught the same way I was from a child. But as they got older, they made their own decisions where they wanted to serve God. Once you become a certain age, you are responsible to God for everything you do, right or wrong. I don't judge the preacher, minister, pastor, what have you for teaching and preaching what they believe. I can tell him/her that they are wrong, but if they are determined to believe and serve in that manner, who am I to try to condemn them to hell for it. I am only a servant of God, trying to save my soul from eternal hell. I don't have to criticize someone's teaching, say they are going to hell along with those who believe them (words of one of your friends of the ministry). You can't speak against certain people who also believe that what they preach and teach is at right as what you're preaching and teaching. Is it going to stop them from preaching and teaching what they want to preach and teach? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! A thousand times, NO! You say that Bishop Jakes is a false preacher/teacher. His ministry is still going on as strong as ever. As big as Goliath was over King David, his faith in God was so strong, he still prevailed......that is my point......I serve God, not man.....That is the problem with this world now. Man has done everything by his rule and regulation that he or THEY think they can change what He said and it's supposedly right.....NOT! I think Not......
I have 4 children. I have had people tell me that to spank my children is wrong....that I shouldn't mistreat them like that. But my God said, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." I can't manipulate that to say what I would like it to say or make people believe because I think I'm that special to God to do that. No. God said it. He meant it. It's been the same in all my 40 years of living. And guess what? It's not going to change 40 years after I'm gone. It is what it is. No man can change what God has said or done. It's there. No, what you and your friends say is extreme for you....not for me....play along? This is not a game. I'm in this world to live and live by God's word and try to be like unto Him. I am not here to judge you or anyone else. That is not my job.......If my family chose to miss work to do what the preacher says.....lol.....they have to reap the seed they've sewn......They will lose their house, car, etc.......If they are FOOLISH enough to believe that they will lose their salvation and go to hell for not going to work and taking care of their family instead of taking the day off to go clean pastor's house........then, they will lose their homes, etc.......They know right from wrong.........My mother told me a long time ago that you can have street sense.....you can have book sense......or you can have common sense........But if you could only have one, the best one to have would be common sense.......God gave us that to make choices including the choice to serve Him or serve the devil......CHOICE......whichever, there are consequences and repercussions.......good or bad.....Serve God.....good consequences.....serve Satan.........bad.........Either way.....God bless you all! Praise God.......Thank you, Lord, for allowing me to rise to see another beautiful day. Thank you, Lord, for giving me testimony so that I can speak on how good and merciful you are to me. Thank you for keeping my mind focused on you, Lord, and what I need to do to be closer to You, Lord. Show me your way, Lord, so that I don't faulter. If I fall, because I am not perfect like You, Lord, pick me up and guide me in the direction I should go. I know that it wasn't so much that I did, Lord, to deserve all that You have done for me. But it was your goodness and mercy, Lord. I just want to thank You, Heavenly Father, for everything good and bad, because if it wasn't for bad, Lord, we wouldn't appreciate the good. Thank You, Lord. Thank You! There is nothing about me, Lord, that places me above any other individual on this earth and makes me any better than them. Lord, you gave your only begotten Son so that whosoever believeth in you, Lord, may not perish, but have everlasting life. Lord, you have taught me through other living bodies that all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. So, no man, is exempt in this. We are all in the same boat. Lord, you let me know in Proverbs 20:9, who is it that can say, I have made my heart clean and am pure from my sin? Thank you, Jesus! Matthew 7:1-5 goes on to say, "Judge not, that ye be judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shall thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Have mercy, Lord. I Corinthians 4:1-5 says, "Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover, it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment; yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God." And last, but certainly not least, James 4:11-12 clarifies that you should speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that "speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law; but if thou judge the law, thou are not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is ONE lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy; who art thou that judgest another?" Praise God, Amen, Amen, Amen!

bobw · administrator

Jacinta,
Your answer explains it all. You will not answer questions you will only accuse. You are doing exactly what you claim we are doing. You are accusing me of trying to be God. Isn't that judging my actions? I believe so. Have I tried to convict or condemn you? No not in any way.

I feel sorry for you as you are evidently so deceived into believing that all you have to do in life is say you love God and let anything and everything that happens just happen. It is of no concern to you.

I guess by your answer that your family and friends in the question I ask of you would just have to figure it out on their own. That certainly is not a very nice way to treat your family. Jesus taught us to beware of false teachings.....isn't that the least you could do if you wish to be like Him?

I will be praying for you my dear.

In His Love
R. Wise

jacinta513 · Active Member

God bless you! And I will pray for you trying to be God trying to determine who will go to hell......Like I said, and so says the Bible.....that is what Judgment Day will be for....You are only a mere man......lol.....therefore, you can't convict me or condemn me to any hell.......You really ought to pray some more.....God bless you again.....and I will pray for you....praise God

bobw · administrator

Jacinta,
I am afraid you are missing what I and others here are saying.
We are NOT judging anyone's soul. We are judging what they are teaching and preaching. That is a simple Biblibal principal which we are all supposed to do.

Let me ask you something please. If you had 5 very close family and friends who were going to a certain church and you knew that the church and preacher there were telling their followers that unless they gave $400 every Sunday to the Church and that they had to take turns cleaning the pastors house on a daily basis OR they were going to lose their salvation and go to HELL, WHAT would you do? Would you just ignore it or tell you family and friends that the preacher was wrong and that they should not believe as he is teaching?

I know that may sound extreme but play along with me please. What would you honestly do in a case like that when your dear loved family member s and friends were taking out loans and missing work to do what the preacher told them because they were afraid of losing their salvation and going to hell?

Please let me know.

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

That's the problem ... HE will pay the price ... and SO WILL ALL THOSE WHO FELL FOR HIS FALSEHOODS!

jacinta513 · Active Member

Then, so be it.....Continue to judge and disobey what God has said.......that is your choice.......I choose not to judge Bishop Jakes or anybody else.....I want to go to Heaven, so, while I am here on this earth, I will live my life trying to make my life an example to be followed and not worrying about something I really have absolutely no control over. Understand this, no matter what you say, how you say it, where you post what you say, what you do, Bishop Jakes is going to continue to do what he does. If he is wrong, he will pay the price....this I promise you....why? Because, my God said so.....so, AGAIN, for the umpteenth time, I will worry about the works that I've done because I can't change the works of others.......everyone has to stand judgement alone......when that day comes, you will not be able to stand with all of your friends of the ministry and profess about the goodness they have done, nor will you be able to stand against the likes of T.D. Jakes. You will be standing for "wordworker" and "wordworker" alone..........So, I will do as my Father has told me and leave this one alone because I have my soul to worry about....hence have a blessed day in the Lord, keep praying, and look for the positive.....God Bless You and all you encounter....Jacinta

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

As I've said in other posts there is a question that answers everything and here it is ... again.
If you live near a railroad track and you know there is a bridge out about two miles away, is it right or wrong to warn the oncoming train?
DO YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO STOP THE TRAIN EVEN THOUGH IT CAUSES A DISRUPTION IN SERVICE?
THAT is exactly what this website is for.
It's to WARN THE PASSENGERS on the train that T.D. Jakes (and other false teachers) are engineering so they can JUMP OFF BEFORE THEY DIE.

jacinta513 · Active Member

I have already prayed about it. No, I don't have to love and accept anything and everything that everyone says or does. But at the same time, it is not my place to judge those that do wrong. I have a task on my hand of reckoning with SELF....that's a big enough job for me. I thank God for not placing the task on me to do anything else.........I am grateful. I am not a minister or reverend or anything with that type of status. I am a servant of God. I long to be the best servant I can be, even if my only task is to wash His feet, I thank you, Lord. Angry, never that. These are just words and we live in a nation where freedom of speech is a right. So, feel free to say what you want because I will surely do the same with respect for myself and the next man. It is only your opinion (maybe with the veterans and long time friends of the ministry) that I am headed down the wrong road. Even ministers, reverends, bishops, etc. are wrong at some point in their lives. They are not always right about everything. But it is not my job to judge whether they are right or wrong. Let's just say that you are wrong. What is it going to solve by me going all over the world and telling everyone that Rev. Wise is wrong and a fake and he is a blasphemy to God's word? It is going to serve no real purpose to me. I am not going to get rewarded for saying that you're wrong. It is not for me to say that you are fake.....God will take care of ALL false prophets.....whomever they may be....They will be revealed for who they really are and what they really stand for...Good story to relate to on that point is the wolf in sheep's clothing.....I just want to live my life for Him.......I always remember that the people called Jesus fake and didn't believe him and actually whipped him and nailed him to the cross for what he spoke about God's word. Things haven't changed.....People still talk, talk, talk.......All I can say is we will see what transpires on judgement day........God bless you.....

Jacinta

bobw · administrator

Greetings,
Thank you for your reply. Your quote says: " My question to you, if God says it's okay for us to judge one another, by your account, then what will the purpose be for Judgment Day?"
I believe I made it quite clear that no-one is to judge the soul. Judgement Day is when we will be judged and our souls are at stake.

I have to graciously disagree with you. Most of what you are saying is nonsense. You seem to be one of those who believe that you can just love everything and it will all be ok. So Sorry but that is not the way it is.

You say: "If you see the sword coming (false teachings) and do nothing, you are guilty. But you don't have to judge another person."
Well if you are guilty...is there not some sort of consequence for that guilt? By using that analogy ... you can live a life of being a sinner and being guilty of committing all sorts of sins with no consequence. Respectfully, that is nonsense.

Take a moment and think about what you are truly saying. You seem to be a wonderful orator but you are missing the meat. All milk and no meat simply does not work.

I will pray that you allow the true Holy Spirit to guide you and your thinking. I have love for you but with the attitude you continue to display, you are heading down the wrong road.

Release the bitterness and contempt for those who do not agree with you. You claim I take the Bible and make it fit my thoughts but you are so wrong. I take the Bible and take it for face value. You cannot take part of a verse and stop there as you did with the following:
It simply says, "JUDGE NOT".....To me....that simply means, just don't do it.....
When you read the whole verse and those surrounding it you will find it has a different meaning.

By the way...I am an ordained Minister along with being an administrator. That doesnt make me any better or smarter than anyone else but I thought you should know.

Pray about it.

Blessings and may God Bless You,
Bob

jacinta513 · Active Member

Tell that to the administrator who says that God didn't say not to judge......so, evidently someone is confused and I know it's not me......read his comment to me.......I don't believe that I am judgmental. If I am and I ask that God will show me the right way. Like I have told everyone else that I've commented to.....nothing you say or do is going to put Bishop Jakes in a Heaven or Hell........If he is wrong, that is the seed he is sowing. Without fail, he will reap what he sowed, with or without your comments......Period!

jacinta513 · Active Member

I guess this is what my grandmother was talking about when she told me that people will take the words in the Bible and try to make them make sense according to what they believe. In my 40 years of living, this is my first time ever hearing that God didn't mean don't judge. That sounds crazy. It's almost as crazy as saying that God didn't mean that we can't kill, steal or commit adultery. He meant something else. Come on! Are you serious? My Bible teaches me that there is only ONE God. God is God all by Himself and doesn't need the likes of you or I to make up where He lacks. Simply put, He doesn't lack. My God is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. My God is a jealous God and said that we should have no other gods before Him. If He needed us to do His job and judge, tell me what you think He is here for. Not trying to be sarcastic or over the top, but your comment sounds like you are a person that thinks you got here and live here without His presence. Correct me and forgive me if I am wrong. But the Bible does not say you can serve God this day and then backslide the next to satisfy your own loins and get into heaven. You have to live your life for God all the time. The devil is busy. Temptation is there. God gives you the choice to follow His rules that He has set aside for us to follow. You can follow Him or go with Satan. You can't continue to live in sin, knowing what is right and think you will go to Heaven. It just doesn't work that way. People have had shackles on their hands and feet for decades. Now, they take those shackles and try to place them on their minds and make people believe what they say is right. But I do understand that people are going to have their own interpretations of what the Bible is telling us. Like I said previously, this is a first for me to hear that God didn't say not to judge others. I would like to know what religious preference you are affiliated with. The Bible does NOT give you a choice whether to judge or not. I read the King James version. Matthew 7:1-5, does not give a stipulation of how to judge or not. It simply says, "JUDGE NOT".....To me....that simply means, just don't do it.....It says, don't judge so that you be not judged. My question to you, if God says it's okay for us to judge one another, by your account, then what will the purpose be for Judgment Day? No matter what you say, what you think or what you do, when that day comes, nothing you say, nothing you think or nothing you do will determine my place in Heaven or Hell. Vice-versa, nothing that I say, think or do will put you in a Heaven or Hell. So, isn't it quite redundant to be judging someone else in their actions, furthering your risk of condemnation in Hell? That's absurd! Doesn't make any sense. So, on that note, I do need clarification of just what it is you are trying to say the purpose of God and Judgment Day are. Certainly doesn't mean that your opinion will embed itself in my mind because honestly no matter how you look at it, JUDGING someone else is against what God says. I didn't say that Jimmy Swaggert failed in his moral life because he judged Mr. Bakker. I said that he was trying to exalt himself and make himself seem pure as the driven snow when he was just as guilty as that man. So, why would he condemn himself further by judging him for his wrongdoings when he was wrong, too? Should never have tried to do God's job in the first place. He was put here to do one thing, but wasn't satisfied with his job. He wants to be God and do His job. Like I said before, you know what's right and wrong. Your neighbor might go out and kill someone out of road rage....example........He is wrong. No doubt about it. But God doesn't need you to judge your neighbor because of what he has done because his day of judgment is coming. Although you are in the ministry (or should I say, a ministry), it does not give you the authority to try to force God to give up what He has already said He was going to do. Everything that is written has or is coming to pass. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. No man, including you, can change what the Bible says or what it means. God said what He meant, and meant what He said. This I know to be true and I don't have any authority over any ministry. I'm not an administrator over a website. I'm just a mother of 4, trying to live my life for God. But I know what is right according to the scriptures. I know that my life has not been perfect. I strive to be like unto Him. But I will not cast the stone because I am not without sin. I have sinned in my life. I have been wrong. I have asked God for forgiveness and if I did something to someone, I asked them, too. But I can't judge you when I'm a sinner, too. People are so hellbent on trying to determine who is a prophet of God, who is right, who isn't. And for what? Why? Is it going to make their lives any better for doing so. Again, I think not. I don't mean to be the thorn in anyone's side, but regardless of what Bishop is doing, you and all of the people who believe what you believe will not put him in a Heaven or Hell. In the words of my children, stop hatin' and serve God to the best of your ability for your life and your life alone. When judgement day comes, what you say about the next man won't even matter. It's going to be about you and what you've done in your life that determines if you are going to Heaven or Hell.....and I hate to keep reiterating that, but that is fact! That's what's real. My grandmother always told us, "Stop pointing the finger at the next person! Cause when you do that, you got that big old thumb pointing right back at yourself!" Didn't understand her when I was a little girl growing hearing all these phrases depart her lips (bless her soul). But I understand them all now........You said,"Any and every Christian if truely accepting of Jesus as their personal Savior and Lord, knows exactly what they are doing at all times." And what IS foolishness, if you know the word like you say you do and still believe that it is right for you to judge another man! I understand by your message to me that you have taken verses in the Bible and made them into what you want them to say. I know what is right. And knowing that, I know I don't have the right or justification to sit down and talk about how right another person is just because I think they are wrong (and I'm speaking of the Bible and what it teaches.) I don't have the right to sit and talk about you when my life has not been a bed of roses. I am sure that yours has not either. I am not perfect. I don't know of any other person who IS perfect but the Father. Say, what you want. Do what you will. I am not here trying to start a war of the Word. I know judging is wrong! You used the analogy:

You are walking down the sidewalk one day and come to a cross street. You notice that a car is barreling down the road and is about to run a red light. You see this other person getting ready to cross the intersection and can plainly see that they do not notice the oncoming car speeding through the intersection. You could yell and stop the person from crossing the street. You could grab ahold of that person and stop them from stepping out in front of the oncoming car. But, you do nothing and that person steps off the curb and right in front of the oncoming speeding vehicle and gets hits and dies. Now legally, you did nothing wrong. No man's laws claim you have to stop the person from stepping off the curb. But, the laws of God tell you to do something to protect your fellow man/woman. You could have stopped this person from being killed and in doing so could have spent a couple minutes talking about the Gospel message, maybe helping this person to decide on a bigger step in their lives.
The same is for the verse. If we see the sword coming (false teachings) and do nothing. We are guilty of that persons soul if they follow that false teaching and go to hell when we could have done something about it.

If you see the sword coming (false teachings) and do nothing, you are guilty. But you don't have to judge another person.

My analogy:

A boy is walking down the street. A local gang is walking towards him and decide that they want the boy to participate and become affiliated with their gang. So, they try to entice him and even threaten to do him bodily harm along with his family if he doesn't comply. I'm sitting on my porch and witness what is unfolding right in front of my home. Is the right way to prevent him from harm is by talking about what the gangs do bad and how they are no good and are nothing but thugs in the streets that don't mean themselves or anyone else any good? Or would it be right to tell him that that is not the way, that becoming a part of that organization is only going to lead to his demise and destruction, and tell him what God wants him to do with his life. You see, Mr. Administrator, I can defeat the devil without saying a mumbling word about him. I don't have to say or do anything to that old devil. He's already condemned......So, why do I need to say things about the gang or the devil and condemn myself to hell when I can tell him how God has been good to me....testify of His greatness in my life and feel so much better about it than I would if I said all the negative things about the gang/devil......

Point and case made: I am not without blemish! So, I won't judge. If you decide for your life that it is okay to judge, then have at it, my brother. But I want to go to Heaven...... Jacinta

bobw · administrator

Greetings,
I think you have misunderstood Matthew 7:1-5
The Lord is not telling us "not to judge" He is telling us that IF we are going to look at what someone is doing we better make sure we have our lives right FIRST. Nowhere does He say DO NOT JUDGE in these verses, He is telling us that we also will be judged accordingly so BEWARE before you make any rash decisions, remarks or accusations.

Jimmy Swaggart did not fail in his moral life because he judged Jim Baker or anyone else. He failed because he failed to live according to the Biblical Standard the Lord has set forth for us to follow.
I do not believe Jimmy Swaggart had a false sense of security, I believe he knew all along what he was doing and that it was wrong, he was just trying to cover it up as carefully as he could by preaching against the same sin so people would recognize him as someone against something so strongly that he surely could not be involved in such as that.

"Judge" is a legal word that means "to judge a person to be guilty and liable to punishment".

To Judge does not mean as you described. To judge means:

transitive verb1: to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises2: to sit in judgment on : try3: to determine or pronounce after inquiry and deliberation4: govern, rule used of a Hebrew tribal leader5: to form an estimate or evaluation of; especially : to form a negative opinion about <shouldn't judge him because of his accent>6: to hold as an opinion : guess, think <I judge she knew what she was doing>intransitive verb1: to form an opinion

You are saying that to judge means to automatically judge a person guilty...not true, to judge sometimes means innocent. As Merriam Webster states above, to judge is to form an opinion, to weight it all out, to determine AFTER INQUIRY.

To think that judging someone gives us a false sense of security is foolishness. Any and every Christian if truely accepting of Jesus as their personal Savior and Lord, knows exactly what they are doing at all times. Sometimes they will choose to "willingly" disregard what they are doing to justify in their own minds but all along they know they are guilty.

The Scriptures make it very clear that we are to judge but t o judge the fruits, actions, etc., of individuals but NOT TO JUDGE THEIR SOULS. That particular judgement is for the Lord and no one else.
Consider the following:
Matthew 24: v 4-5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

How can we begin to take heed that no man deceive us if we cannot determine by discernment and judgement of what they are telling us so we know if it is true or false. The reason so many are deceived is because they believe as so many others do that they have no right to judge anything.

Also consider this:
Romans 16: v 17-18
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

How can we follow this directive from the Lord IF we cannot judge for ourselves what is offensive to the Doctrine which He taught us. We must be remindful that the Lord our God DOES NOT make our decisions for us. He taught us everything so we would have the proper teachings to be able to make the right decisions accordingly to what He taught.

Or, consider this also:
2 Timothy 4:2-5
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."

It would be virtually impossible for us to "reprove", "rebuke" or "exhort" if we were to not judge what others are teaching and preaching. We MUST discern and then make a judgement on what we see and hear. Souls depend on it. This does not make us a God or even as some like to think, a "god". The following verse makes it very plain why souls are at stake.

Ezekiel 33:6
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

What the Lord is saying here is simple. IF we see false Scripture or false Doctrines or false Teachings being put forth to the people and do nothing about it, we are responsible for that persons soul. A simple analogy is this:

You are walking down the sidewalk one day and come to a cross street. You notice that a car is barreling down the road and is about to run a red light. You see this other person getting ready to cross the intersection and can plainly see that they do not notice the oncoming car speeding through the intersection. You could yell and stop the person from crossing the street. You could grab ahold of that person and stop them from stepping out in front of the oncoming car. But, you do nothing and that person steps off the curb and right in front of the oncoming speeding vehicle and gets hits and dies. Now legally, you did nothing wrong. No man's laws claim you have to stop the person from stepping off the curb. But, the laws of God tell you to do something to protect your fellow man/woman. You could have stopped this person from being killed and in doing so could have spent a couple minutes talking about the Gospel message, maybe helping this person to decide on a bigger step in their lives.
The same is for the verse. If we see the sword coming (false teachings) and do nothing. We are guilty of that persons soul if they follow that false teaching and go to hell when we could have done something about it.

Think on this for a moment before responding. Judgement is not a bad thing unless you Judge the soul.

Blessing,
Bob

-- Edited by bobw at 12:40, 2008-09-07

The Saint · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Jacinta- You're pretty judgemental for one whose point is that one should not judge. Have you read your own posts? The point of this ministry is not to "judge," but to "discern." Big difference. Discernment is critically important in the spiritual world and America could use a whole lot more of it. The preachers you so vehemently defend are way off track and are leading people astray by the thousands.

jacinta513 · Active Member

And yes, what you are saying is true......But you are missing my point altogether. Does it not also say that it is not for you to judge another? In fact, I think the Bible verse is"Judge not, lest you be judged" (Matt 7:1) Sometimes we even try to defend our judgmental attitudes.We say, "Im not being judgmental; Im just telling the truth."Yet the judgment game is a dangerous game to play. Why should Christians avoid a judgmental attitude toward other people? In Romans 2:1-16 you will see why judging other people is so dangerous spiritually.

1. A False Sense of Security (Romans 2:1-4).

After presenting a vivid description of human sin, Paul sets his sights on those of us who are tempted to be judgmental. Theres a sense in which Paul set us up in chapter one, because he described human society at its worst, and those of us who arent as bad as we could be were silently applauding his description. In fact, chapter two of Romans is for those of us who liked chapter one a little too much. In chapter 1 Paul told us that all humans are without excuse before God because weve all rebelled against our Creator. Some of us silently thought when we heard those words, "Yeah, thats true of most people. But Im a law abiding, home-loving, family values, clean-living, decent person. Surely Paul cant mean me." We conclude that Pauls talking about bad people, but not good, moral, upstanding citizens like us. So here Paul turns his attention to the moral person, to the good, upstanding church member. Could this be you?

Now its vitally important to define the word "judge" in v. 1. This is the exact same word Jesus uses in Matthew 7:1 where he says "Judge not, lest you be judged." In fact Paul is probably alluding to Jesus teaching there. "Judge" is a legal word that means "to judge a person to be guilty and liable to punishment". As Pauls using this word here, hes talking about setting ourselves up as a judge over another person.

Pauls talking about a judgmental, arrogant, hypercritical attitude that makes ourselves to be better than the person were judging. Pauls not talking about making moral judgments. After all, in the previous chapter Paul made the moral judgment that all humans are under Gods judgment. In chapter one Paul made the moral judgment that certain attitudes and actions are sinful. You see the opposite of being judgmental isnt tolerance of everything but its HUMILITY. People who exalt tolerance as the supreme virtue are usually extremely intolerant of people who dont share their belief in tolerance. For example Tufts University celebrates its tolerance of diversity on campus. But earlier this year when the Christian club at Tufts refused to allow a practicing lesbian become president of the Christian club, the university did a very intolerant thing and banned the Christian club from campus. The leaders of the Christian club said they simply were following the Bible on this issue, and theyd do the same thing with any person involved in sex outside of marriage. Now eventually the University had to reinstate the Christian club, but that case is a prime example of just how intolerant tolerance can be.

So this passage isnt telling us to suspend our moral judgment. If you hire a new baby sitter and she shows up to your house with green hair, a pierced nose, a cigarette hanging out of her mouth, and a six pack of beer in her hand, its not judgmental for you to decide not to leave your kids with her. If we witness a person run a red light and plow into another car, its not judgmental of us to tell the police officer what we saw. Its not judgmental to say, "having an affair is morally wrong" or "stealing is immoral." Pauls talking about a judgmental, hypercritical attitude that exalts ourselves as judges over people. Thats what Paul is condemning here.

When were judgmental we condemn ourselves, because were guilty of the same kinds of sins we condemn in others. Its not the act of judgment thats wrong, its just that were not very good at it because were as guilty of sin as anyone else is. The "same things" in v. 1 looks back at that list of 21 different sins in 1:29-31. These various sins are as prevalent among religious people as they are among irreligious people. Both moral and immoral people struggle with things like envy, malice, gossip, slander, arrogance, heartlessness, and so forth. In fact, we often commit these sins under the cloak of morality, religion, and Judeo-Christian values.

When God judges people Hes able to see all the facts. God can see each motive, each secret action, each attitude. Because of that, God judges us the RIGHT way. And even though God sees all that, God withholds judgment and gives us a grace period so people have the opportunity to be restored to God. Thats what the church age is all about, from the time Jesus came into the world on Christmas day until he comes again at the end of history, this is a grace period. God is showing his forbearance so as many people as possible can find restoration with God.

But some of us interpret Gods grace period as evidence that hes not concerned about our own sins. We figure if our gossip or malice really bothered God, hed so something about it. So we treat Gods kindness as a weakness, as if it were unimportant, we set it aside as a sign of Gods indifference toward our sins, rather than viewing it as intended to draw us to turn back

to God.

Its like my college student loans. When I attended William Carey University Id accumulated some debt from student loans, but because I continued my education, my student loans are forgiven until I complete my degree. Now the bank didnt grant me forgiveness out of the goodness of their heart, but to give me time to finish my education and get a job so I could afford to pay back the loans. So six months after I graduate from school, I will start getting bills for my student loans. I wont be surprised or taken back by the bill, because the forgiveness is temporary and for a specific purpose. Well Gods forbearance or forgiveness of our sins is similar: its a temporary grace period intended to lead us to get right with God. But many moral people interpret Gods forbearance toward their sins as a sign that everythings okay, that their sins have escaped Gods notice.

Here we find our first reason why judging people is dangerous. A JUDGMENTAL ATTITUDE LULLS US INTO A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.

You know what a lull is dont you? Youre lulled when youre gradually soothed and calmed into thinking that everythings okay. When a babys crying we sing a lullaby to lull the baby to sleep. When we set ourselves up as judges over other people, were lulled into a false sense of security. We figure those homosexuals have made God so mad that he doesnt notice our gossip or our malice. We figure Gods attention is focused white supremacists, so he doesnt notice our problem with pornography or slander or lying. All of us tend to divide sins into two categories: My sins and their sins, and of course their sins are always worse than my sins.
Back when the TV evangelist Jim Bakker was exposed for sexual sin and fraud, Ted Koppel on Nightline interviewed fellow TV evangelist Jimmy Swaggert. Swaggert was asked to give his opinion about Jim Bakker and Swaggert came off as very judgmental. In fact, he called Bakker a cancer to the Christian community. Then just a short while later Swaggert was exposed as being guilty of some of the same kinds of sins. His judgmental attitude had lulled him into a false sense of security.

You see, Gods not impressed by what we condemn. Being right with God is only found through Gods good news about His Son Jesus, not by which moral causes we stand for. Theres nothing wrong with calling social problems sinful and wrong; theres nothing wrong with discerning between good and bad, but we must do that in humility and love. We get into trouble when we start thinking that other peoples sins are worse than ours, when we start looking down at other people rather than looking at each other as equals in this problem of human sin. Bible teacher John Stott says,
"Paul uncovers in these verses a strangely human foible, namely our tendency to be critical of everybody except ourselves. We are often as harsh in judgment of others as we are lenient toward ourselvesThis device enables us simultaneously to retain our sins and our self-respect" (Stott 82).

Im convinced this is one reason why Christians are sometimes reluctant to join small groups like home Bible studies, because its easy to fake it in a big group, but when were in a small group Bible study people see who we really are. Yet often it takes a small group to wake us up from this false sense of security.

2. Blind To Our Own Faults (Romans 2:5-10)

Now lets look at the second reason why its dangerous to judge in verses 5 to 10. When we treat Gods forbearance as unimportant that betrays a sense of stubbornness and hardheartedness. Instead of making deposits of grace in our spiritual bank account, were just making continual deposits of judgment. You see, even though Gods judgment is presently being revealed from heaven against the entire human race, a day will come when each of us stand before God on the day of judgment. When that day comes, God wont look at what we were against, at what social causes we championed, but hell look at what we actually DID. God will evaluate each of us according to our OWN actions. On that day of judgment there will only be two alternatives, heaven or hell, being welcomed into a place we were made to enjoy or being shut out from God forever.

Here we find the second reason why judging is dangerous. A JUDGMENTAL ATTITUDE BLINDS US TO OUR OWN FAUILTS.

All of us have blind spots, and a judgmental attitude merely keeps these blind spots blind. Its like the woman whos raised in an alcoholic family and she swears that shell live differently. Yet develops a drug problem and drags her children through the same kind of experience she had growing up. But shes blind to the fact that shes repeated her fathers sin against her.

We all have blind spots. We even change the way we talk about our faults, figuring we have extenuating circumstances to justify our faults. Other people lose their temper but we have righteous indignation. Other people are jerks but were just having a bad day. Other people have a critical spirit, but we simply tell it like it is. (HINT, HINT) Other people gossip, but we share prayer requests. Other people are pushy, but were goal oriented.

This makes me think of Roger Williams, one of the Puritans who came to America in the 17th century (Bellah 68-70). Williams became convinced that the Puritan Christians were too sinful and not pure enough, so he left Massachusetts and became the founder of the Rhode Island colony. Once there he became a Baptist and started the First Baptist Church of Providence, Rhode Island. But then he once again became convinced that the church had too many sinners, that it wasnt pure enough, so he started a smaller, purer church. But still he was convinced the people werent pure enough, so he started a church just composed of his wife, a friend and himself. His judgmental attitude blinded him to his own sins, and in the end he ended up being an unchurched Christian.

This tendency toward blind spots in the church is why so many unchurched people avoid the Christian church at all costs. Not because we struggle with sin as much in the church as people do outside the church, but because were often blind to the sins WE struggle with. Were blind because weve spent so much time focusing on OTHER PEOPLE'S SINS that we can no longer see the ways our own lives dishonor God. This is one reason why corporate worship is so important, because if were truly encountering Gods presence in our worship, then Hes breaking through our blindness and exposing our own faults. Thats not always pleasant, but its necessary to break through our blindness. Worship keeps us anchored in reality and humble before each other.

A judgmental attitude is dangerous because it blinds us to our own faults.

3. Playing God (Romans 2:11-16)

Now, this is the reason I favor most. Thank you, Jesus! Lets look at the final reason why judging other people is so dangerous. In verse 11 Paul starts with a basic truth, that God doesnt play favorites. God doesnt make unjust distinctions between people. Gods treatment of people is fair and impartial.

Now back then the people of Israel assumed because God had given them His law that they were immune from judgment. The law here is the 10 commandments. In the Bible God gave the people of Israel through Moses. The people of Israel didnt see Gods law as a burden, but they saw the 10 commandments as a sign of Gods love and favor on them, and it was. But then they assumed that having Gods law meant they were shielded from Gods judgment. It was true that they were special, but that special status was intended to share Gods love with other people not protect them from Gods scrutiny.

Its not those who post the 10 commandments on their walls or who go to 10 commandment studies who are right with God, but those who actually obey the law. Here Paul seems to say that its hypothetically possible for a person to be right with God on the basis keeping the 10 commandments. The problem is that no one, and I mean NO ONE, including you, has actually done this; the power of sin over our lives prevents us from obeying the law sufficiently to merit being right with God. This is why Jesus lived a perfect life, a life that did keep the 10 commandments perfectly, so he could give us his integrity as a gift when we trust him. So although its hypothetically possible to obey the 10 commandments in such a way to be right with God, in actual experience it never happens because all of us have broken Gods law.

But here Paul presents evidence to show that both Jewish people and non-Jewish people will be judged by the same standard. Paul anticipates an objection that its not fair for God to hold non-Jewish people to the standard of his law since they didnt have the 10 commandments. So here Paul claims that all people--both religious and irreligious--have the requirements of the 10 commandments written on their hearts. In fact, non-Jewish people often obey parts of the law because irreligious people can be very moral: Many are honest, they remain faithful to their spouse, they honor their parents and protect human life. This doesnt mean non-Jewish people who do this are made right with God, but it does mean that they have Gods law in their hearts.

You see everyone has an internal moral compass that functions in our lives like the 10 commandments functioned in Israel. This internal moral compass isnt infallible but its like a moral smoke alarm when we violate Gods standards. So its not like Jiminy Cricket in Pinocchio telling us to just follow our conscience and everything will be okay. But this internal moral compass is sufficient to show us that there are moral absolutes in our world and that all of us live by this moral compass at times.
Because all of us have knowledge of Gods standards, when the day of judgment that eventually comes, each of us will stand before God with no excuse. On that day our hidden secrets will be revealed, as we stand before God to give an account of how we lived. None of us, including you or I, can stand based on our own works, our own morality, our own merits, but only those whove received Christs perfect life as a gift through faith will be able to stand.Here we find the final reason why judging people is dangerous. A JUDGMENTAL ATTITUDE USURPS GODS ROLE IN PEOPLES LIVES.

God and God alone is the judge. Thank you, Jesus. My POINT: When we set ourselves up as judges of other people were actually playing God. And guess what playing God is? Its rejecting our Creator and worshipping and serving the creation rather than the Creator, the very indictment we saw against the entire human race back in chapter 1 (1:25). In other words, its just as possible to be a religious, moral rebel as it is to be an irreligious, immoral rebel. But both are forms of rebellion against our Creator.

When we play God we invariably show favoritism. When we coach our kids little league team, we treat our kid a little differently than the others. We struggle with favoritism as teachers, as bosses, as pastors, as politicians. Its part of the human condition. Thats why we have checks and balances in our culture to protect people against unfair treatment. Thats all well and fine for teachers, coaches, bosses, and politicians. But when we play God and set ourselves up as judges over peoples lives, were in really dangerous territory.

Under our moral cover, were guilty of the most basic human sin there is; the sin of playing God. Thats a dangerous place to be, no matter how moral, socially acceptable, and religious it is.

Conclusion

So as you can see, judging other people is extremely dangerous to our spiritual lives. When we become judgmental it lulls us into a false sense of security, it blinds us to our own faults, and it usurps Gods role as judge. So next time youre tempted to pass judgment on someone, beware: Do you really want a false sense of security? Do you really want to be blind to your blind spots? Do you really want to set yourself up over God? Do you really?

Now once again, the opposite of being judgmental isnt tolerance of everything. Tolerance says, "You must agree with what I do. You must allow me to do whatever I want." But the opposite of being judgmental isnt just pretending like everythings moral, that it doesnt matter what people do. The opposite of being judgmental is being humble, its looking at ourselves and our own failures first. Its admitting that we fail as much as other people, that we violate Gods law as much as irreligious people do. Its no longer pretending like we have our act together, but admitting that only by the loving grace of God can any of us be made right with God. When we see another person stumble and fall, its admitting that were just as likely to stumble and fall in the same way. Amen, Jesus. Thank You, Holy Father, for blessing me with the many blessings that You have bestowed upon my life, my family members' lives, and the lives of humanity as a whole. Thank You for blessing me and keeping me in Your loving arms. Thank You, Lord, for waking me up this morning, enclosed in my right mind, so that I might seek your word, so that I might live. Amen......Jacinta

Sojourner · Veteran Long Time Friend of the Ministry

Matthew 6:19 & 20
Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal."

Matthew 6:21
"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

I do not believe the purpose of scripture is to transform us into wealthy Pharisees' or Sadducees', but is instead to transform us into the image and character of our Lord. 1 Corinth. 13:12 "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known." 1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you willabide in Him." To me this is structurally basic in walking the "narrow path"; it is a path that conforms our walk, as we yield, into His walk because we were purchased with a price and are not only brothers and sons through Him, but slaves as we obey and walk as He wills.

Previously in 1 John 2:15-17 God states: "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the worldthe lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of lifeis not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever." I wonder why? Listen closely to those you hold in such high esteem and you will hear their true heart. What is the emphasis or proclaimed outcome if their words are followed? Compare that with what Jesus said. Christ did say if we were in him we could ask the Father for basically anything and the Father would grant it to us. If the character and person of Christ has been revealed to you, I don't mean what you were taught in Sunday school, I mean the Holy Spirit has opened your understanding to "know" the true Son, then what is asked of God should be an easy answer...more of Yeshua's personal presence living through us each day.

jacinta513 · Active Member

To workworker:

LOL....Could you hear me shouting/yelling? That's so weird because I didn't know that you could hear me shouting in my typing......Anyways, I wasn't shouting, my friend.....It's called.....writing in bold and italics, you know, using FONT......Praise God. You know, a person, people have to go through trials and tribulations......I don't why the Christian Chinese or Vietnamese people are going through what they are going through. You would have to question GOD on that one. But I pray that you don't do that, MY FRIEND.......I personally, don't believe what you and many other people say about Bishop T.D. Jakes. And if people like you want to continue to attempt at being God, then go right ahead by all means.....I am sure, MY FRIEND, that you (as well as many others) are in no place to judge anyone. I know that I can't. You know why? You see, I have my own faults. And before I can try to criticize and fix someone else, MY FRIEND, I have to fix me. Stop casting stones, MY FRIEND! If there is something that Bishop is doing wrong, I am certain, because my God said so, he will reap the benefits of the seed he sowed. That's why I'm not worried.....I can take what the Lord gave me through Bishop and press on like a child of God.....so, that's what I choose to do. If you want to put on God's robe and judge people, then have at it, MY FRIEND! But God has a big job.....I personally, wouldn't want to try to do His job......Seems too much for little old me to do......He told me in His words just what He wanted me to do.......Judge of the Judged was not one of them.....And of course, I will not stop responding.....we live in America don't we......I served this great country we call the U.S. of A. and I have that right to freedom of speech....LOL, but that's another topic of discussion. The average person might get upset about your comment. However, I have no reason to because in the end, you're still trying to judge another person.......In the end, when that great judgement day comes......I am sure (because my God said so.......), I will not be standing in front of you to be judged.....Point and case: your judgement and the judgement of all these other "Christians" (if you will) won't even be thought about at that point. I can just envision Him opening the judgment book, pondering back over all the things we've done in our lives and saying, "Didn't I tell you not to do that? That was my job, son!" Praise God.....You see, my friend, we as a people, as a nation, as Christians have too many problems in this world to be worried about whether someone's faith is legitimate. The last days are revealing themselves everyday. And still all we can do is judge and criticize others. We'd better be trying to make sure everything is right with SELF while we are pointing the finger.....Hallelujah, Praise God.......Because everything you've thought, done or said, MY FRIEND, I won't have to answer for.....YOU DO! Another clarification.....I never said that everyone who does God's will gets blessed with material things..........I said that will be rained down upon with His blessings......Let's get it right, MY FRIEND.........What I consider a blessing to me, might not be a blessing for you...........For example.......My mother passed away July 9, 2008. A blessing for me would be that God will move in my father to help him to cope in my mother's passing. I would be overjoyed and be grateful for that blessing because I'd rather have that than a material blessing. You say that you are a veteran and long time friend to the ministry.......My role may not be that important to you......I am a servant to God.....I am not attached to any particular ministry, but my Father's......and you know, I'm going to continue to go on about my Father's business........My question to you, MY FRIEND, is what profit will this site benefit by shooting down Bishop T.D. Jakes? In the end, will it shut down Bishop Jakes and his ministry? Will it stop him from being blessed? Will it make people see him as you and this ministry see him? Will it count on judgment day? I don't think it will.......So, all that for what? God bless you, Wordworker.......You know, people talked about Jesus Christ, even as He was being nailed to the cross after all the wondrous works He did. Nothing He did or said was good enough for the people. They thought He was a joke. All I'm trying to say is stop trying to do God's job. He has been an expert in this field before you and I were ever thought of and doesn't need our assistance in being God.......But maybe you should watch "Bruce Almighty" .Jim Carrey plays this guy wanting to be God......In the end, after he has been given God's job, he realizes that he can't handle it and just wants to be a regular person again. I love you, wordworker......Thank you for your opinion of what I said......I thank God for using my body as a tool.....I could have gotten angry, but the devil would be victorious over my soul.....The devil is a lie....Praise God.....Jacinta513

wordworker · Lifelong Friend of the Ministry

1. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOUT IN BOLD 24 PT. TYPE!

2. T.D. Jakes teaches faulty doctrine and PAUL (That's St. Paul, not Paul Smith down the street) said the Word of God is given for REPROOF AND CORRECTION (among other things) ... Well ... the WORD OF GOD can't very well reprove or correct unless someone with sound doctrine does the reproving and correcting USING SCRIPTURE. Right?

3. God DID put these things on earth for us to enjoy ... but not at the expense of others (people who are told if they just "give to [my ministry] God and you will be blessed!" when they don't have enough money to feed their kids). Anyone who has watched Jakes or any other "PROFIT" has heard them say the same thing!

4. And not everyone who does God's will gets blessed with material goods. Jesus Himself said he had nowhere to lay his head. And when the disciples were challenged about paying their tribute, they didn't reach into their pocket or write out a check ... THEY HAD TO GO FISHING FOR IT.

5. If an obedient servant always gets "rewarded" then ... why are the Christians in China, VietNam, Laos and MANY OTHER COUNTRIES being "rewarded" with persecution, imprisonment and even death? Your logic just doesn't hold up to scrutiny, friend. Don't stop posting but please ... DO stop shouting!

jacinta513 · Active Member

I had the opportunity to read the article written about Bishop T. D. Jakes and his clarification of his beliefs about the Trinity. This article also discussed the Bishop's posh lifestyle. My God. Isn't that just what is wrong with the people of this world today? You know, I've not been as blessed as the Bishop in that capacity. I have had and am still struggling. But the difference in myself and people like these that write this type of article is that I have the faith and believe that God put all these worldly things here for us to enjoy. They can and will act as temptations, while at the same time can be a blessing, a reward for being obedient to His word. My God said that if you obey Me, all you have to do is ask and it shall be given. He didn't put us here on earth to lack. People are so judgmental in this time that it is ridiculous. They are always trying to find fault or wrongdoing in everybody but themselves. I love this song by a group called the Williams Brothers. It says sweep around your own front door before you try to sweep around mine. My mother used to always tell me (God bless her soul; she passed on July 9, 2008), if you point a finger at someone else, you've always got one pointing right back at you. There is so much turmoil going on in the world. And all people can find the time to do is "be a hater"......Stop being jealous of a man that is being blessed every which way he turns.....Try to figure out what he's doing so you can be just as blessed as he......that's my objective.......I want to be closer to God and be like unto Him, so that I might reap the benefits of doing so. I want to one day, sit in the kingdom of Heaven with God. I have so many faults of my own, that I don't have the time to shoot arrows at any other indians because I'm too busy dodging bullets.....People in general had better wake up and smell the coffee.....He said that it won't be water, but fire next time.....That next time is here and now......Heed his warning.......Everything that was written has and will come to pass........One thing that I have to credit my mother for instilling in me and making it stick is that you can do good, or you can do bad.....Either way, you don't need to tell anybody what you have done and how great or disgusting it might have been.......Truthfully, no need for any one other person to worry about how good or bad the deed might have been either. Point is, whether it was good or bad.....in the end, that person has to answer for whatever the deed might have been. If it was good, you will reap the benefits of that good seed.....bad, well, my God said, you will reap the benefits of that bad seed.....It doesn't matter how many people talk about it, agree or disagree......consequences will follow..........It's like the rising of the sun.......as surely as it rises....so, shall it set..........Stop being jealous and so critical of the actions of others.....Spend a little thinking process in the front of a mirror, figuring what you are doing right or wrong.......I love the Lord, my God, with all my heart, soul, mind and spirit.....I believe that He is the reason I exist. I also believe that if I obey His commandments, I will be blessed without a doubt.......I don't know how important these critical writers are in society......it's really not a matter of fact to me.......I am thankful for Bishop Jakes and his ministry no matter what people may say about the man........People criticized, even stoned Jesus Christ.....Lord, have mercy.......so, what will they do for a man in this day and time......When I lost my mother, that was the hardest pill in the world for me to swallow........just a message across the airways from Bishop Jakes made me understand that she was okay and that it's okay for me to miss her.....and it's going to hurt......but, she no longer has to endure the hardships of this world including people backbiting, being jealous, and all these things of this world........Thank you, Jesus........Get a grip, people..........the signs of the times are exhibiting themselves in every facet of life we live each day and we continue to disobey His word. We continue to belittle and betray our brothers and sisters of this world when He said love thy neighbors as you would love yourselves......Understand that if you can't do that, there is no way you can say you love yourselves, much less, God..........it's amazing how people can tell you what they believe and it is supposed to be doctrine.....and criticize their fellow man and try to make him look like a fool.....and in the same voice say they love God.........Love him in everything you do. Stop being so critical of a man because he is prosperous. If he were a black man, on the streets, selling drugs, killing people, raping children, the people would say that he isn't any good. Thank you, Jesus.......But, he's spreading the word....and to you writers, he still isn't any good.......come on, people. Bishop Jakes may not be right about everything he does because lest you not forget that before he became Bishop T.D. Jakes, he was just a man. And although he has obtained that title (Bishop), he is what........still a man..........He is not perfect, but striving to be like unto Him..........and being blessed right on.......I envy the Bishop and pray to get as close, if not closer, to God as he, so that I might have blessings raining down on me, too............I will pray for you.....Thank you, Jesus